Concerned about my baby.

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Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:31 pm

Hello,

So I’ll have to give some background. My beardie was adopted from my cousin who was not taking care of him properly. He is now housed in a custom cage with the correct lighting, temps and humidity. He is an adult, probably around 2-3 years old.

When I first got him he didn’t eat well, but he slowly came around and had a great appetite and was gaining weight. Over the last week and a half he stopped eating. No greens, or even his Dubia. He was still pooping though, normal poops.

I took him to the vet on Monday who did an exam and said he was dehydrated. She didn’t do a fecal on him.

Since the vet I’ve been doing daily soaks, Rx liquid calcium twice daily, and attempting baby food. He just started eating some baby food (and I mean 0.5mL in a syringe) and ate that much yesterday and today. He opened his mouth today and I could see his mucous membranes did not have the thick “spit” like they did when he was at the vet.

So today he has a bowel movement. First one in 4 days. There was a LOT of liquid, and then quite a bit of brown/tan mucous. The mucous concerns me. There was also signs of food (which he hasn’t ate in a week and a half). I couldn’t take the poop to get a fecal today, so I’m hoping he goes again Monday.

I am concerned about the poop. After he pooped that out he was much more active than he has been. What is the brown mucous a sign of? And it smelled horrid. Sorry for the long post.

*Edited to add that I have electrolytes, critical care and probiotics that are supposed to be delivered Monday*
Thanks.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby Drache613 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:26 pm

Hello,

Poor little one, it sounds like he most likely has coccidia, or pinworms, if the stool smells
that bad. Normally the stools shouldn't really smell quite that bad. So, if possible, it would
be a good idea to at least have a fecal done on him just to help determine if that could be
the cause of the irregular stools. It's too bad the vet didn't do one when you were there
recently.
Which UVB are you using?

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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:14 pm

lorenrickmar1214 wrote:Hello,

So I’ll have to give some background. My beardie was adopted from my cousin who was not taking care of him properly. He is now housed in a custom cage with the correct lighting, temps and humidity. He is an adult, probably around 2-3 years old.

When I first got him he didn’t eat well, but he slowly came around and had a great appetite and was gaining weight. Over the last week and a half he stopped eating. No greens, or even his Dubia. He was still pooping though, normal poops.

I took him to the vet on Monday who did an exam and said he was dehydrated. She didn’t do a fecal on him.

Since the vet I’ve been doing daily soaks,
<<< unless the dragon is actually drinking the bath water , bathing will not help hydrate it, unlike some animals who can absorb moisture via the skin and their vents, bearded dragons who are evolved for very arid hot regions will not absorb moisture through their skin or vent, they only get hydration via the food they eat and when the drink.


Rx liquid calcium twice daily
Is that oral or via a needle ?
If it's via a needle , I'd buy a bottle of VetaFarm CalciVet , and give the calcium to him orally via small syringe with a long nipple on the end , is very nice tasting and I've found my rescues take it very willingly, even licking my fingers clean.
Much less stressful than sticking a needle in a reptile.


, and attempting baby food. He just started eating some baby food (and I mean 0.5mL in a syringe) and ate that much yesterday and today. He opened his mouth today and I could see his mucous membranes did not have the thick “spit” like they did when he was at the vet.

So today he has a bowel movement. First one in 4 days. There was a LOT of liquid, and then quite a bit of brown/tan mucous. The mucous concerns me. There was also signs of food (which he hasn’t ate in a week and a half). I couldn’t take the poop to get a fecal today, so I’m hoping he goes again Monday.
<<< if he's only been fed very infrequently , don't expect regular poos , no food in there ==> not much to poo.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about a no poos for week , even for two weeks, some adult dragons have very slow metabolisms and like to save up their poos to then give you the motherload once a week or even once a fortnight.
Check the zone temperatures --> very strong influence on a dragon's metabolic rate --> pooing interval.

Mucus in the poo - can indicate the GIT flora are not good, and may also be just dietary, I'd take a fresh sample of the next poo to a vet in a sample bottle to have it checked for the presence of GIT paracites and to assess the microorganisms present.
May just be one of those issues that comes good once his diet is normal and balanced.



I am concerned about the poop. After he pooped that out he was much more active than he has been. What is the brown mucous a sign of? And it smelled horrid.
<<< MAY just be he's had an upset tummy with the location stress and change in diet , and the poo was saved up for a long time and was rotting in his gastro intestinal track .

Can be an indication of parasites too.


Sorry for the long post.

*Edited to add that I have electrolytes, critical care and probiotics that are supposed to be delivered Monday*
Thanks.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby AHBD » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:13 am

Hi there, how did the vet determine dehydration ? Can you post pics of your dragon to show the size + condition and also of the entire set up including lights ? Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

And I agree that soaking won't help too much unless he's drinking, offer water with a syringe or eyedropper.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:40 am

Thanks everyone for the opinions.

I know they don’t poop often, but he usually went twice a week and total (from onset of not eating) to his first poo yesterday was about 8 days or so. Does coccidia typically cause numerous stools? He hasn’t went again.

However, since pooping yesterday his weight went from 384gm to 375gm. He was underweight when I got him, and visibly speaking he had gained, but I never weighed him. I can tell now that he is almost back to how he was when I first got him.

His temp gradient is 102 at basking spot, and gradually goes down to 80 on the opposite end. His UVB is the T5 10.0 I believe, it was the one recommended by the forum.

That concerns me that he doesn’t take water in by his vent, since that’s what the vet told me. I guess she isn’t much of a reptile vet. :( Today he took 1mL of water and almost 2mL of carrot baby food. I’m expecting my ordered supplements tomorrow. He has a basking light, the UVB and a CHE on the other side (above the wire) to keep the heat up on the other end.

He is 18 inches long. And the calcium gluconate is given by syringe. He won’t even look st his Dubia at this point. [Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:49 am

As far a "condition" goes , he looks fine to me.

As adults they can easily do poos of over 30g. So that much change is neither here nor there, now if 'he were loosing that much consistently over a matter of several weeks , I'd be asking a vet to look into it if it's not a husbandry issue causing the weight loss.

The T5ho tube doesn't appear to have a reflector (slip on) or a reflector hood and looks like it's aimed out of the tank. It needs adjustment :
1) suggest investing in a reflector (like an Arcadia Slip On) or a reflector hood
2) the T5ho tube needs to be ABOVE the basking with it's rays directed down
3) the T5ho tube needs to be about 1 foot from the basking spot (I'm assuming it's either a 10% UVB or 12% UVB tube.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:02 am

The tube is aimed down into the tank. I bought the fixture that was recommended for the light. It is about a foot from the basking spot. But obviously it isn’t over the basking spot. Excuse my ignorance but how do I have the UVB over the basking spot, but a foot away from the basking light? Is that where the reflector comes into play?
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby AHBD » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:05 am

Thanks for the pics, they are always helpful....the set up is quite nice :) The dragon is somewhat underweight but not immensely. And as mentioned, your uvb bulb is MUCH too far away. Your dragon is probably feeling the effects of lack of uvb . Mount the bulb on top of the tank , down where the heat bulb is. It looks like you could set it across the top.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:21 am

AHBD wrote:Thanks for the pics, they are always helpful....the set up is quite nice :) The dragon is somewhat underweight but not immensely. And as mentioned, your uvb bulb is MUCH too far away. Your dragon is probably feeling the effects of lack of uvb . Mount the bulb on top of the tank , down where the heat bulb is. It looks like you could set it across the top.




If the UVB is on top of the cage, it will be about 6 inches higher than the basking light. And I will have to get an attachment for the light because the bulb is at the bottom and there’s no protective covering. Could i position it over a few inches from the basking spot, at the same height?

And thanks. I plan on adding hammocks and bridges for him. He loves to climb.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby AHBD » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:27 am

I don't understand how you have your lights positioned....is it different than in the picture ?
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:38 am

AHBD wrote:I don't understand how you have your lights positioned....is it different than in the picture ?


No but I think that picture is deceiving. I should have taken it from the side. The cage is 2 feet wide. The UVB is approximately 4 inches in from the back[i] of the cage, and hangs approximately 5 inches down. The basking light is about 5 inches in from the [i]front of the cage, and hangs about 10 inches down. So there is about 16 inches between the two lights. From what you guys are saying, I think I just need to move the UVB light in towards the basking light. That UVB fixture has an open space where the lightbulb goes. I can mount it up higher to the top of the cage, but still actually inside the cage. I hope that makes sense.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby AHBD » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:46 am

It looks like the uvb is about 3 feet from the basking spot to me.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:52 am

No. The cage itself is only 2 feet from front to back.
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:50 pm

For lorenrickmar1214

Side layout (generalized)
Image

Top layout (generalized)
Image

and to work out distance (generalized , we use our old mate Pythagorus)
Image

If the AtoC angle inside the triangle is very small, A is going to be close enough to C in length to be considered the same length.

I hope the above sketches and explanation clarify this for you. I think in this case a few geometric sketches are worth a 1000 words of explanation.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Concerned about my baby.

Postby lorenrickmar1214 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:57 am

Thank you! Those sketches help a lot. My T8 bulb does not have a reflector hood, so I may need to purchase one. I did move them closer together and angled the basking light so that it hits with the T8 as best as I could without the reflector hood.
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