Ponazuril and Probiotics

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Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby Klub708 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:05 pm

Yesterday I turned in a fecal sample to my vet as part of their general checkup package. She was diagnozed with Isospora Oocysts/ Coccidia. They prescribed two treatments of a 1 ml. syringe of Ponazuril at a concentration of 14.2g. That may be incorrect because his handwriting is barely legible. Anyways, I have heard bad things about antibiotics harming the digestive system and their natural beneficial bacteria and I want to get a Probiotic to hopefully lessen/prevent these effects. What is a quality probiotic that is safe to use after the treatment is over? I am very worried about this whole situation. Also, how do you get them to take the medicine because pulling down her lip just makes her shake aggressively and she spits out any liquid. Can I put it in her treats(blueberries) and let her eat that???
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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby AHBD » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:20 am

Hi there, you can inject the meds. in to a large blueberry or even her fave insect. And you can use fruit flavored soy yogurt from Walmart, dragons seem to like it.
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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby CooperDragon » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:44 pm

Ponazuril shouldn't be too harsh on her system so that's good. As mentioned you could try injecting it into food and see how that goes. If you do have to force the meds I've found it easier to pull downward on the beard skin with my thumb (straight toward their belly not outward) so the jaw is released. It helps to wrap them up in a towel or something so you can do it with one hand and offer the med with the other. I reserve that for only when necessary though. If her appetite doesn't pick up after treatment I would give the probiotic from Tracie's store a shot. http://www.bug-de-lite.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=Acidophiliz
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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby Drache613 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:11 pm

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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby EllenD » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:32 am

What was the load/count of the Coccidia? And was your Dragon ill and displaying signs/symptoms of the Coccidia making him sick, like a lack of appetite and/or being lethargic?

Most all Bearded Dragons will show low to moderate counts of Coccidia and/or Pinworms on a random fecal test, and as long as they are healthy Dragons their immune systems keep these parasites in-check, and they often live with low to moderate counts of them throughout their entire lives. Unfortunately many, many vets, expecially "Exotics" vets that don't know much about specific reptile species will medicated Dragons who have low to moderate loads/counts of both Coccidia and/or Pinworms, regardless of whether they are sick or being effected by them or not.

Unless your Dragon has been acting like he is sick, he has lost his appetite, become lethargic, or shown any signs of having issues from the Coccidia, or unless the count/load of Coccidia came back as being high, then I would not medicate him for it at all...If this was just a general "Wellness Checkup" that you did as a routine thing and not because he was sick, then I wouldn't medicate him with the Toltrazuril at all.
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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby Drache613 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:30 pm

Hello,

Definitely try to find out the counts of the coccidia just to be sure that treatment is the
best route. Though, Ponazuril is very mild & is used for a very short amount of time. It
isn't an antibiotic so it isn't near as harsh as other medications.
I always recommend using a probiotic anytime you medicate your dragon, it just seems to
help out their appetites.

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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby HippieLizards » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:39 pm

Drache613 wrote:Moved by Moderator from General to Health


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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby HippieLizards » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:48 pm

Whoops! Accidental post, :banghead: My beardie ran across the keyboard and sent that :roll: . Sorry!

How do I delete posts?

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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby Klub708 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:15 pm

EllenD wrote:What was the load/count of the Coccidia? And was your Dragon ill and displaying signs/symptoms of the Coccidia making him sick, like a lack of appetite and/or being lethargic?

Most all Bearded Dragons will show low to moderate counts of Coccidia and/or Pinworms on a random fecal test, and as long as they are healthy Dragons their immune systems keep these parasites in-check, and they often live with low to moderate counts of them throughout their entire lives. Unfortunately many, many vets, expecially "Exotics" vets that don't know much about specific reptile species will medicated Dragons who have low to moderate loads/counts of both Coccidia and/or Pinworms, regardless of whether they are sick or being effected by them or not.

Unless your Dragon has been acting like he is sick, he has lost his appetite, become lethargic, or shown any signs of having issues from the Coccidia, or unless the count/load of Coccidia came back as being high, then I would not medicate him for it at all...If this was just a general "Wellness Checkup" that you did as a routine thing and not because he was sick, then I wouldn't medicate him with the Toltrazuril at all.

So my vet outsources their fecal scans so it was done at Idexx labs and all they wrote was that the Coccidia count exceeded 30. I have already administered both dosages of the Ponazuril so whatever I do now is damage control. She has always acted weird since I had her but nothing serious and I never attributed it to anything like Coccidia.
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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby EllenD » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:45 am

What do you mean "she has always acted weird"?

Usually when a parasitic infection is actually doing them harm, they lose their appetites, become lethargic, have very runny bowel movements, etc. The reason that I asked about the actual count/load of the Coccidia and whether or not she was displaying symptoms of the Coccidia causing issues is because unfortunately it's very difficult to find a Board-Certified Reptile Vet, or even an experienced Reptile Specialist, most all veterinarians that are willing to see reptiles are simply just "Exotics" Vets, which means nothing other than just that, they are General Vets who are "willing to see" reptiles, birds, rodents, or whatever pet you have. And most all of them are definitely "medication happy" because they don't know much of anything about how the different species of reptiles are effected by different medications, nor do they understand that healthy Dragons live just fine with moderate counts of parasite throughout their GI Tracts. So besides medicating with Anti-parasitic or Anti-Protozoan meds for no reason, they are also passing out Antibiotics and Anti-Fungal meds "Just in Case" or "As Preventative Treatment" and without running ANY diagnostic testing, such as taking a simple culture or running blood work. And this is literally killing many, many Bearded Dragons that were totally healthy and happy when they initially went to see the vet for a simple "check-up"...

The point is that you have to be a proactive Beardie owner and not be afraid to say "NO" to a vet that want to put your Dragon on meds for no good reason at all. If no diagnostic tests are run, if they want to use Antibiotics as "Preventative Medicine" or "Just in Case", and especially if you Dragon isn't sick and it's just a routine check-up, then you must say no to putting them on any unnecessary meds. Their Renal Systems cannot handle them, nor can their GI Tracts.

At least in this instance you got very lucky that they gave him the Toltrazuril, as it's not a harsh Anti-Protozoan drug and he should be fine. But had they given him Albon, which is a Sulfa Drug, he would probably be very ill right now, lethargic and not eating. That's why you have to educate yourself about the meds they prescribe BEFORE you allow them to take them, as some of these meds are literally poisonous to all reptiles and these Exotics vets are not aware of this, it seems like they think they can medicate reptiles the same as they do birds and rodents...

He should be fine, as long as his appetite is still normal and he's not lethargic then he should be okay. The best thing you can do at this point is give him water 2-3 times a day by mouth, dripping it on his snout for him to lick off. Keeping him very well-hydrated will keep his Kidneys flushed, which is always important whenever they take a medication. You can also give a Probiotic, like Acidophilus, to settle his stomach. Just giving him some Soy Yogurt (Lactose Free), like the Silk brand that is available at any grocery store or Walmart in with the regular yogurt will do the trick. They typically like the fruit flavors, like Strawberry or Blueberry.
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Re: Ponazuril and Probiotics

Postby Klub708 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:21 am

EllenD wrote:What do you mean "she has always acted weird"?

Usually when a parasitic infection is actually doing them harm, they lose their appetites, become lethargic, have very runny bowel movements, etc. The reason that I asked about the actual count/load of the Coccidia and whether or not she was displaying symptoms of the Coccidia causing issues is because unfortunately it's very difficult to find a Board-Certified Reptile Vet, or even an experienced Reptile Specialist, most all veterinarians that are willing to see reptiles are simply just "Exotics" Vets, which means nothing other than just that, they are General Vets who are "willing to see" reptiles, birds, rodents, or whatever pet you have. And most all of them are definitely "medication happy" because they don't know much of anything about how the different species of reptiles are effected by different medications, nor do they understand that healthy Dragons live just fine with moderate counts of parasite throughout their GI Tracts. So besides medicating with Anti-parasitic or Anti-Protozoan meds for no reason, they are also passing out Antibiotics and Anti-Fungal meds "Just in Case" or "As Preventative Treatment" and without running ANY diagnostic testing, such as taking a simple culture or running blood work. And this is literally killing many, many Bearded Dragons that were totally healthy and happy when they initially went to see the vet for a simple "check-up"...

The point is that you have to be a proactive Beardie owner and not be afraid to say "NO" to a vet that want to put your Dragon on meds for no good reason at all. If no diagnostic tests are run, if they want to use Antibiotics as "Preventative Medicine" or "Just in Case", and especially if you Dragon isn't sick and it's just a routine check-up, then you must say no to putting them on any unnecessary meds. Their Renal Systems cannot handle them, nor can their GI Tracts.

At least in this instance you got very lucky that they gave him the Toltrazuril, as it's not a harsh Anti-Protozoan drug and he should be fine. But had they given him Albon, which is a Sulfa Drug, he would probably be very ill right now, lethargic and not eating. That's why you have to educate yourself about the meds they prescribe BEFORE you allow them to take them, as some of these meds are literally poisonous to all reptiles and these Exotics vets are not aware of this, it seems like they think they can medicate reptiles the same as they do birds and rodents...

He should be fine, as long as his appetite is still normal and he's not lethargic then he should be okay. The best thing you can do at this point is give him water 2-3 times a day by mouth, dripping it on his snout for him to lick off. Keeping him very well-hydrated will keep his Kidneys flushed, which is always important whenever they take a medication. You can also give a Probiotic, like Acidophilus, to settle his stomach. Just giving him some Soy Yogurt (Lactose Free), like the Silk brand that is available at any grocery store or Walmart in with the regular yogurt will do the trick. They typically like the fruit flavors, like Strawberry or Blueberry.

When I say weird I mean that she had never been super high energy like alot of beardies. She has always been very alert and always had a big appetite so i was never concerned and she gets plenty of calcium and multivitamins. I read up on Ponazuri before I administered and read that it was pretty gentle on beardies and that I never seemed to find the horror stories that accompanied aotnof other meds. I already have some Bene-Bac on hand and as of now she shows no change in behavior so im not really worried. I will begin doing small preventative dosages of benebac today just as a safeguard. Other than that Im not concerned
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