BEARDIE NOT EATING & LOOSING WEIGHT

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Sauloman

Member
I have 2 beardies, 1 male, and 1 female. They live in the same tank and they get along very well. They never fight and they even sleep together. The male used to eat a lot and recently after the female grew to be about the same size he slowed down his eating and now has stopped altogether.

I read up a little and came across brumation(but do they become skinny?), and I read that beardies grow lengthwise first(again, I don't know if they are supposed to lose weight) so he might be growing? but I have no idea.

He is looking skinnier, he used to look the same size as the female looks now, and I am worried that he won’t eat. He still basks under their light and share the basking space well. He still moves around so he isn’t sleeping all day.

i will attach pictures of their home and set up.
The female is the big healthy looking one

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Many times when people house a male & female together, it just doesn't work out. The two
scenarios are either the male mates with the female too much, or the female beats up on the
male.
I would personally recommend separating them. You can still have them out to play together,
supervised so they don't mate unless you want lots of eggs. He will do much better not having
to compete for basking & food, etc. That is more than likely what is going on, since he doesn't
seem to be growing properly. He is stressed so his parasite level is probably elevated too which
will affect his appetite.
Do you have another tank you could get him into, with UVB & basking, etc?
I really think he would start to improve housed alone.

Tracie
 

Sauloman

Member
Original Poster
Thank you for your response

They've never mated before but today I noticed the female on top of the male, so I think that might be a sign of him being bullied? I found a 18x32 size tank for $60 is that big enough for the male?
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Yeah, you absolutely must separate them immediately, and place their separate tanks so that they cannot even see each other any longer. They are not getting along at all, they never do. This is exactly what ALWAYS happens when 2 Bearded Dragons are housed together: One Dragon thrives, and one Dragon becomes stunted in growth, is malnourished, develops MBD, and dies if they are not separated ASAP.

Bearded Dragons are completely solitary reptiles in the wild, only coming together to mate, then they separate immediately. That's it. When they are forced to live together in the same tank, no matter how large it is, one Dragon immediately becomes the dominant Dragon, the other the submissive Dragon, and the dominant Dragon takes all the good basking spots with the strongest UVB/UVA, the best temperatures, the best food, etc. The other thing that happens is that the dominant Dragons constantly exerts extreme stress over the submissive Dragon 24 hours a day, and this is why I said that they cannot even be allowed to see each other in their separate tanks, they must either be stacked on top of each other (this sometimes doesn't even help, as the submissive Dragon still knows that that the dominant Dragon is still near, and they are still very, very stressed), or better yet, you must locate their tanks in completely different rooms. They must both have their own tank, UVB and Basking lights, everything. And ALWAYS move the healthy, dominant Dragon out of the tank into the new tank, as your sick Dragon will not be able to handle the relocation stress of moving to a new tank, she looks quite ill and weak. This entire time you thought that they were "Getting Along" and "Sleeping Together", she has been horribly dominated and stressed. She is very stunted in growth and probably is suffering from a Calcium Deficiency, dehydration, and malnutrition.

She needs a very strong UVB tube, preferably a T5-strength UVB tube, proper temperature zones, and cannot be allowed to see that other Dragon any longer. She'll need calcium w/D3 5 times a week and a multivitamin 3 times a week. I'd also be dripping water on her snout for her to drink as much as she wants several times each day. Once they are separated for a week or two and she gets adequate UVB /UVA light, she should start to eat on her own...

And also, please remove whatever that bedding is in both of their tanks, Dragons need to be kept on a solid substrate, such as textured, stick-on slate tiles from Lowes or Home Depot, non-adhesive shelf liner, reptile carpet, or even just newspapers or paper towels for now until you can buy a permanent, solid substrate. They naturally come from the Australian Desert, which is a very hard, rocky terrain with vegetation, it has very little to no sand, and they certainly obviously do not live on rodent bedding, wood chips, bark, crushed walnut shells, or calcium sand. They not only lick everything and can become severely impacted or obstructed, and much larger issue is that ALL loose substrates harbor and breed all microbes, such as bacteria, fungi, parasites, etc. Bearded Dragons are very susceptible to skin/scale infections (Yellow Fungus for one), Upper Respiratory Infections (most common type of infections caused by the particles/dust of all loose substrates that they are breathing all day long, every day), and eye infections/irritations. So you're putting them at a very high, unnecessary risk of illness in addition to making them live in a very unnatural environment. The textured slate tiles are in my opinion the closest solid substrate to what they live on naturally, plus they look great, they hold heat, they are very easy to spot clean with vinegar and water, and they keep their toe nails trimmed...
 

Sauloman

Member
Original Poster
THANK YOU SO MUCH, i found another tank just a little bigger than the one I have for them now. I will move him very soon. it is the male that is being bullied.

He seemed to be under the uv light a lot prior to not eating at all, i guess that had to do with him not being able to get proper exposure to it????
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is great news you found another tank for him. So it is 18 inches in length & 32 inches tall?
That will be good enough for now, but he should quickly outgrow that. The recommended size
for adult dragons is a 75 gallon minimum.
Yeah, definitely he was not getting adequate UVB. She was dominating him. Unfortunately, it
is just what happens with them.

Tracie
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I apologize, I thought that the female was the stunted, sickly dragon. So actually if the female is the larger, health dragon then you need to move her, not him. If the male is the stunted dragon that is sickly, then he should not be subjected to the relocation stress. So leave the smaller, stunted male in the tank and move the larger female out.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Any updates for us on your male today? I hope he is feeling better. Once he is in his own
enclosure he should improve pretty quickly.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

Sauloman

Member
Original Poster
Hi guys sorry for the late update, I'm picking up his new tank finally today. had to get the money together. The female will be separated and into her new home by tonight.

will post an update tonight.
 

Sauloman

Member
Original Poster
i am buying the 40-gallon tank in a few hours. I would like some help on how to help my male get back in shape after all this stress.
He's very skinny and lost a lot of weight.
He's still fairly active though.
How can i help him get back to normal weight and into healthy shape?
What do i give him the calcium and other vitamins with if he won't eat?
How do i feed him the supplements he needs
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
That's good to hear. I would cover three sides of the tank so he feels secure and give him a bit of time to adjust to his new home. Make sure you have a proper heat gradient and a high quality UVB light. Give him some time to adjust and offer bugs and salad as you normally would. He may not take it at first but that's OK. Offer some water by dripping it on his nose to lick up. Once he has a secure space and proper lighting and access to everything he should start to bounce back.
 

Sauloman

Member
Original Poster
Would it be really fun if I were to move the male?
The new tank is significantly bigger and I would like it to be his home not the females.
Moving day into the new tank is tomorrow!!
 

VenusAndSaturn

Sub-Adult Member
You need to keep him in the same tank he is now, if you move him he could become very bad and end up dying from stress and starvation in some cases depending on how bad he gets, either that or you'll just have a lot more problems to fix and he'll be fine eventually.

Eventually both female and male will need separate 75 gallons or 4x2x2 enclosures once grown.

I am unsure if this has been said or not as I have not looked through the comments but you need to get him on a new substrate as well as proper lighting.
Probably paper towels for now will work.
Other substrate options are rough tiles, non adhesive shelf liner, reptile carpet, possibly newspaper, or of course paper towels.
 

Sauloman

Member
Original Poster
I’m going to get them all new substrate tomorrow as well as lighting.
I didn’t mean to type fun I meant to say *bad* I think I’ll keep him where he is now, but i think the new tank would have better lighting, heating and room
I guess I’ll have to see how he’s doing tomorrow morning.
He’s fast asleep right now, during the day he’s active as usual although he’s lost a lot of weight...
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Please do not move the male!!!!!!! He needs to start eating obviously, and if you move him from the tank he's been living in and move him into a new tank, he's going to most likely suffer from a great deal of Relocation Stress, the main symptoms of which are a total lack of appetite, lethargy, etc. So as Venus already said, he could very well starve himself to death if you move him. You need to start getting nutrition in him, not making that situation worse....So let him be where he is, and as Cooper said, it's a good idea to tape some paper up on the inside of the glass so that #1) He'll feel safe and secure, and #2) So he won't be stressing out at his reflection in the glass...

As far as the "Substrate" goes that you're talking about getting for them tomorrow, what are you talking about? PLEASE DO NOT PUT ANY TYPE OF LOOSE SUBSTRATE IN EITHER OF YOUR DRAGON'S TANKS, THEY NEED TO LIVE ON A TOTALLY SOLID SUBSTRATE ONLY, ESPECIALLY IN THEIR CONDITION!!! I don't know what you're planning on buying, maybe you mean some textured, slate tiles or non-adhesive shelf liner, or reptile carpet. If so then that's fine. However, if you were thinking of buying them any kind of sand, crushed walnut shells, bark, wood chips, coco fiber, Eco Earth, any type of loose bedding, like rodent bedding, etc., please do not waste your money. You would only be putting them in danger of either becoming impacted, and/or developing multiple infections. Neither of them have very strong immune systems right now, and ALL loose substrates, regardless of what they are, both harbor and breed multiple types of harmful microbes, such as Bacteria, Fungi, Parasites, etc. So you'd only be putting them at risk for developing an Upper Respiratory Infection, a Skin/Scale Infection, Eye Infections, etc. You need to keep them on ONLY A SOLID SUBSTRATE, such as the Textured Slate Tiles you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot, Non-Adhesive Shelf Liner, Reptile Carpeting, etc. You're much better off with just putting down Paper Towels or Newspapers and changing them out when they get soiled than you are putting them on a loose substrate, they just cannot handle that.

******The most important thing that you can do to put weight on the male, to get his immune system up and running, and to increase his overall health and ensure that he's not going to continue to suffer from any Nutritional Deficiency Diseases is getting him under a very strong UVB light. He's not going to every have much of an appetite until he's getting adequate UVB light right next to a bright-white colored Basking Bulb, both over the top of the Hot Side of the tank, right alongside each other, with his basking spot/platform directly underneath both lights. And make sure that both lights are on every day for at least 13 hours.

I highly suggest investing in a long UVB tube and long tube fixture for it which has a reflector inside it, so that he will get strong UVB light not only right underneath the tube, but all throughout his tank. Both Dragons need their own very strong UVB tubes, this is not optional, it's the most important piece of equipment you will every buy them, and since the male has been totally dominated and robbed of most of the UVB light they were getting when the were together, it's probably a given that he is suffering from a Calcium Deficiency and MBD, as well as obvious growth and development stunting. So the ONLY way to reverse this and to get him gaining weight and growing is with a very strong, T5-strength UVB tube and fixture. That's your answer.

Dragons do most all of their growth and development during their first year of life, so they both have time to grow yet. But obviously it's going to be crucial for the male to get strong UVB light and a ton of live insect protein every single day if you want him to even have a chance to catch-up in size, reverse any of the physical disabilities caused by the Calcium Deficiency and MBD, and for him to have the large, healthy appetite that he needs in order to start eating a large amount of live insect protein daily. So you need to get him a T5-strength UVB tube that is at least 22" long, and that is at least a 10% UVB tube, or a 10.0 UVB tube (NO 5% OR 5.0 TUBES)...

Buying UVB tubes is expensive in pet stores, and most all of the tubes you see for sale are the much weaker T8 strength UVB tubes, which cannot sit on top of any type of mesh lid because they are too weak to penetrate adequate UVB light on the other side of the mesh to your dragon, so they have to be strapped to the underside of the mesh lids. They also have to be within at least 6" of the Dragon's basking spot/platform, and they must be replaced once every 6 months on the dot, as they have a very fast UVB decay rate, and at 6 months old they stop emitting much UVB light at all.

In contrast, the much stronger T5 strength UVB tubes are strong enough to sit on top of the mesh lid as long as they are within 10" of the Dragon's basking spot/platform. Another plus is that they only have to be replaced once every 12 months. So you save a lot of money over time.

The cheapest place to order a T5-UVB tube and fixture is on Amazon.com. For about $60 shipped you can get both a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube and then also a 24" T5-rated (24 watt) tube fixture that includes a reflector with it. This is how you are going to get him eating, growing, and putting on weight.
 
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