Bearded Dragon Acting Odd Need Help?

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madirocks

Member
Hi, so I’m new to the bearded dragon community but i’ve done so much research. I recently adopted a male bearded dragon who’s about1 1/2 years old. His names RJ and I got him friday. (Today’s Monday) I keep his temperatures at 105-110 on the hot side (with a heating pad underneath his hot hide) And the cool side is 80. He spends an awful lot of his time basking, and will only eat (without difficulty) when i hand feed him, though he’s very interested in the food and will eat quite a bit. Here’s where it goes wrong though; RJ is very tipsy and will lay on his arms, stand on his wrist at times, and just generally isn’t very stable. The man i bought him from included many calcium and vitamin powders, so i don’t think he had any defficiencies from that. Everything I read suggested MBD but the only similarity is his lethargicness and odd movements. He will run and move often when i have him out of his cage. I’m not sure what to do but with our financial problems right now we can’t afford to take him to a vet for a month or so.
 

madirocks

Member
Original Poster
For night I have the “Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp” by Zoo Med and it’s 150w, and daytime I have an 150w “Intense Basking Spot” by Exo Terra. I’d say it’s about 9-10 inches above his basking, since we have a 30 gallon tank, but it’s what was recommended.
 

destiny1998

Extreme Poster
Photo Comp Winner
Thanks for answering. Defiantly No light or heat source at night. Beardies need a cool down and complete darkness to sleep. Second he needs a good uvb light ASAP!!! A reptisun 10.0 t5 tube is what you need. Also you need to know what his temps are on his basking platform. A temp gun or a digital thermometer with a long wire probe is needed.
 

madirocks

Member
Original Poster
My house cools down to around 70-75 degrees and can sometimes go down to the mid to high 60’s at night. And I thought the UVB was just the night lamps? I have a long tube-like light on the cool side that came with his cage. I’m sorry I sound so ignorant aha i really did do a lot of research before getting him, I just have obviously
gotten a bit confused
 

destiny1998

Extreme Poster
Photo Comp Winner
He'll be fine if your house does not go below 65. Then you want a che for night. What kind of uvb light? What is the brand? Also those need to be changed every 6 moths u less it's a t5 Ho light. Also you want to put the basking light and uvb light next to each other. So when he basks he gets the benefit of both. There are care sheets at the top. Those should also help you get your lights right.
 

madirocks

Member
Original Poster
The tube light itself says “15 watt - T8 - BP Desert 50” and there is no brand name. Is that a UVB light do you think?

Other than that the lights we have currently are his 150w basking light, A red night bulb that is also 150 watts, and a purple one that is Im thinking 100. But, I’ve been reading no lights at night so i turned everything off, including his undertank heating matt.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
He most definitely has MBD, the symptoms are classic, and no, that light is just a Basking Bulb and the night light shouldn't even be used at all, but no, it does not emit UVB either. So if those are the lights he has had, he's gotten no UVB light at all...

Please post some photos of him and his enclosure, but you absolutely must go out and buy him an adequate UVB tube, a Reptisun 10.0 T5HO or an Arcadia 12% T5 and matching length fixture immediately. No compact UVB bulbs, no coil UVB bulb, it must be a long tube, and it must be a T5 strength, he needs it, a T8 strength tube will not do. You need to start to reverse the MBD, as much of it as you can at this point.

Without any UVB light (should be on for at least 14 hours every single day along with the bright white basking bulb, no night lights at all if the enclosure is at 65 degrees, they want it cool and pitch black at night) he was not able to manufacture any vitamin D3 on his own, which means he couldn't process or absorb any of the Calcium you gave him or that he ate. It's now caught up to him, poor guy. I have a 1 year and 3 month boy who I rescued at 8 months who never had a UVB light, he had severe MBD, and he's gotten better, but he will probably always told his front arms under him, and he still doesn't walk steadily, but he's now healthy and his bone density was great on his last x-ray, so it is possible to correct this, but you must do it now!
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I just saw your post where you listed the long T8 tube you "had on his Cool side"...That is a Zilla brand UVB tube, which are horrible uvb tubes, obviously, they don't emit nearly enough UVB light for a beardie, and unless it was mounted under all mesh or glass lids and was inside the enclosure, and was mounted within at least 4-6" of his basking spot, it gave him no UVB light...And your UVB tube needs to be right alongside the basking light over the HOT SIDE AND DIRECTLY OVER HIS MAIN BASKING SPOT! NOT OVER THE COOL SIDE!!!!

Also, out of curiosity, does the Zilla tube fixture you have that tube in have a clear plastic safety cover on it that covers the actual UVB tube? Most Zilla tube fixtures come with one that blocks 100% of the UVB light emitted by the tube anyway, UVB light cannot penetrate glass or clear plastic...So if you did not remove that clear cover then unfortunately it's like he had no light to begin with...And also, all T8 UVB tubes, even the Reptisun, must be replaced every 6 months, as that is when they stop emitting any UVB light, even though the tube isn't burnt out and still emits light, the UVB light dissipates and is dead at 6 months...But it wouldn't matter if that plastic cover was on the fixture...
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I'm sorry, I was in a real hurry to leave for an appointment when I posted those posts, but I wanted to quickly let you know what was going on with your beardie. I'm sorry this has happened to you and to him, Zilla says they put that clear, plastic safety cover over on their fixtures because "it's not necessarily for a UVB tube, and if a regular, 18" light tube is used in it people could be burned", that's the answer I got from their representative when I asked for a friend a year or two ago. My next email to their representative was "Okay, I would accept that answer if it was a package with only the fixture in it for purchase, but my friend bought a package deal that is specifically meant for "desert reptiles" and it included the 18" fixture with the clear, plastic safety cover on it,.And your brand of T8 UVB tube, a Desert 50 T8 UVB tube for desert reptiles. So why do you put that cover on the fixtures that come in that package that is meant for desert reptiles and comes with an already weak, 18" T8 UVB tube that cannot penetrate the clear cover with any of it's UVB light?" The representative with Zilla sent my friend a refund check for the $39.99 plus 6% sales tax he paid for the package deal, like $40 would make up for making his baby beardie permanently disabled...

The real problem with cheap UVB tubes like the Zilla tubes is that regardless of them putting that cover over the slit the UVB tube goes, even if they didn't put that cover on their fixtures that Desert 50 T8 UVB tube that they make doesn't emit nearly enough UVB light for a desert reptile, it's ridiculous. And nowhere on their packaging does it say that it cannot sit on a mesh lid or that it has to be mounted within 4-6" of the Basking Spot for the reptile to get ANY UVB light, and no where on the box does it say to replace it every 6 months either (it may now that they've gotten thousands of complaints, this was almost 2 years ago now that I looked at the packaging and spoke to them)... Unfortunately your beardie is only one of thousands that has MBD and a host of other health issues due to that damn Zilla Desert 50 UVB tube. They put a great price on the package deal, $39.99 for an 18" T8 UVB tube and fixture, and honestly the Zilla "Slimline Fixtures" are very, very nice tube fixtures once you remove those hard plastic safety covers. I have both 18" and a 24" Zilla Slimline fixtures that hold an 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube and a 24" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube, as the Zilla 24" Slimline Fixture is rated to 24 watts and T5 tubes, and they are awesome fixtures. But their lights are total garbage.

Zilla isn't even the manufacturer of their own lights, none of them. They buy all of their lights from a cheap, Chinese factory that manufactures all of the cheap, inadequate reptile light brands that emit little UVB or UVA light, but they do emit other very dangerous rays that are byproducts of their cheap manufacturing process. ReptileOne, Zilla, All Living Things, and a few others are all the same, crappy lights rebranded. And what is really horrible is that All Living Things has been the house brand of PetSmart for years, and now Zilla is the house brand of Petco, which is going to at least double the cases of MBD in bearded dragons. UHG.

I rescued my boy Nix about 7-8 months ago when he was 7-8 months old, and he had no UVB light at all until the last month his first family had him, when they saw that something was wrong with him and figured out that they had never had a UVB light for him. So they went to the same Petco they bought him from as a hatchling, the same Petco that told them the light they were selling them was an all-in-one bulb and that was all they needed, and they bought him the same Zilla Desert 50 UVB tube package deal for $39.99, and it came with the 18" Zilla Slimline fixture with the clear, plastic safety cover over the UVB tube, so poor Nix had NEVER had any UVB light at all until I adopted him at 7-8 months old...I threw the Desert 50 UVB tube out immediately, but I pulled the plastic safety cover off of the 18" Slimline fixture and kept it because there's nothing wrong with their fixtures, and the Slimline fixture is awesome, it's thin and fits easily under a mesh enclosure lid and still allows a lot of space inside the enclosure.

Unfortunately for Nix, the total lack of UVB for the first 8 months of his life did the same things to his body that it has done to your beardie. When I adopted Nix I immediately knew he was in a really bad way. His front legs were ALWAYS folded together and underneath him. Whenever he walked he looked like he was drunk, stumbling around and even flipping over while walking on a completely flat surface. Sometimes when he would climb up his basking platform/cave he would fall backwards off of it and onto his back. And any time I put a dubia roach or even a large BSFL, which hardly move at all, it would take Nix at least 3-4 tries, if not more, just to hit the stationary worm with his mouth, he had absolutely no depth perception at all. It was so sad, usually after 3 or 4 tries Nix would just lick his lips, turn his head around, and walk away (the best he could) from the worm, like it just wasn't worth trying to get it in his mouth. He was kept on wood chips and fed a mix of mealworms and crickets, but he obviously couldn't catch crickets, so they ended up feeding him as many live mealworms as he wanted every day, which resulted in the worst impaction I've ever come across in any beardie. His prior owner told me for the last 3 months before I got him, he had lost over 150 grams and had a bowel movement maybe once every 2 weeks, but they were always a tiny urate with a speck of poop. He had a massive impaction of mealworm shells and wood chips inside him for 3 months!

I'm telling you all of this so you know that you can get your little guy back on track, but you have to start immediately, right now. ****The very first thing you need to do is buy a high-quality, long (either 18" or 24", 24" is better for that size enclosure) UVB tube and matching length fixture, and then get it mounted correctly and within the effective distance from his Main Basking Spot. This is priority #1. His bone density is likely very weak and thin, so he needs to get under a high-quality UVB tube ASAP so that he can start manufacturing his own vitamin D3, and start absorbing and processing all of the nutrition, vitamins, minerals, etc. (especially Calcium) he eats, so that his bone density will start to increase, his muscles will get stronger, and hopefully some of the symptoms he is having, like the folding of his front legs underneath him and the unsteady walking/falling over. You also should switch over to a high-quality liquid Calcium supplement instead of the powder for a while until his bone density improves. The liquid Calcium is not only more potent, but it's much more readily absorbed than the powders are, and as long as you buy him a proper UVB tube and get his temperature ranges correct, he will be able to absorb a lot more Calcium from the liquid than the powder. I do not recommend the Flukers brand liquid Calcium you see for sale at PetSmart and Petco, that isn't going to do him any good. You need a vet-grade liquid Calcium, the best is called Calcivet, and is inexpensive and available online.

Amazon.com is your best bet for buying pretty much anything you need to get for him. They definitely have the cheapest prices, the quickest, cheapest shipping (usually free and overnight or 2-day shipping), and you can buy the best available UVB tubes on Amazon along in a package deal that includes the matching length flourescent tube fixture for an awesome price... Amazon also has the best price on the Calcivet liquid calcium, just search for "Calcivet liquid calcium" in the Amazon search bar.

As far as the UVB tube you need to buy, once again, I highly recommend skipping over the T8 strength Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube: #1) It's not any cheaper on Amazon than the much stronger T5HO tube is, #2) Both the Reptisun 10.0 and the Arcadia 12% T5 tubes can sit on top of a mesh lid (honestly I would still mount them to the underside of the mesh lid just in case); regardless of whether you mount it under the mesh lid or on top of the mesh lid, the T5 tubes are strong enough that they only have to be within 11" of his Main Basking Spot, unlike the T8 tubes that must be within 6" of his Main Basking Spot, so the T5 tubes give you more space, and #3) The T5 tubes will keep emitting UVB light for 10 months to a year before you must replace them, while the T8 tubes only emit UVB light for 6 months and must be replaced, so the T5 tubes last twice as long...I think the bottom line is due to the condition of your beardie, he needs a 10.0 T5 strength UVB tube to get him back on track...

The two available 10.0 T5 UVB tubes that most all experienced bearded dragon owners and reputable breeders use are the Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube (NEVER BUY A 5.0 OR LOWER UVB TUBE, ONLY A 10.0!), and the Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube (Arcadia also makes a 14% T5 UVB tube)...Both are great UVB tubes and the best available for a bearded dragon. Both emit UVB light for 10 months to a year before you must replace them (THE TUBES DON'T BURN OUT, THEY WILL STILL APPEAR TO BE WORKING AT 10 MONTHS TO A YEAR, BUT EVEN SO, THEY COMPLETELY STOP EMITTING ANY UVB LIGHT AT ALL AND MUST BE REPLACED!), and both must be mounted within 11" of his Main Basking Spot...The Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube comes in weird lengths, instead of coming in 18", 24", 36", 48", etc., the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes come in 16", 22", 34", 46", etc., however, they still fit in standard-size flourescent tube fixtures. So a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube will fit in a 24" fixture, a 34" tube will fit in a 36" fixture, etc....The Arcadia 12% and 14% T5 UVB tubes come in standard lengths and fit in standard-size fixtures.

I just ordered three 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes on Amazon.com for $23 a tube, so that's a fantastic price, the cheapest I've ever seen on a 22" 10.0 T5HO by far. If you go to Amazon.com and search for "22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube", a page of different sellers and their prices will pop up. After you select whichever seller/UVB tube you want to purchase, that tube's page will pop up, and if you scroll down the page you will see several package deals that add matching length flourescent tube fixtures to the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube you've selected. As far as the fixture you select, it really doesn't matter if you do it this way because all of the fixture options that pop up will be rated for a T5 tube and at least 24 watts...THE ONLY THING YOU MUST MAKE SURE THE FIXTURE YOU BUY HAS IS A METAL REFLECTOR THAT SITS IN THE FIXTURE BEHIND WHERE THE UVB TUBE SITS!!! THIS IS CRUCIAL BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO ENSURE THAT ADEQUATE UVB LIGHT FILLS YOUR BEARDIE'S ENCLOSURE! If you cannot find a matching length tube fixture that comes with a built-in metal reflector, you can purchase a separate slip-on reflector on Amazon.com as well, and they are really inexpensive. Just search for "UVB tube reflector" on Amazon.com. IF YOU ORDER A SEPARATE SLIP-ON METAL REFLECTOR, BE SURE THAT THE LENGTH OF REFLECTOR YOU CHOOSE MATCHES THE LENGTH OF THE UVB TUBE YOU ORDERED, NOT NECESSARILY THE LENGTH OF THE FIXTURE YOU ORDERED!!! This really only applies if you buy a Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube, as it comes in weird lengths like 22" and 34", but they fit in 24" and 36" fixtures, so you have to make sure you buy a slip-on metal reflector that is 22" or 34" long and matches the tube length.

Y
 

madirocks

Member
Original Poster
I made this account specifically to help my baby, so i’m not sure how to insert a photo. help?

I just went out ASAP and got the reptisun t8 10.0 uvb tube. expensive but hopefully worth it!

I’m looking for the Calcivet liquid calcium online but can’t seem to find it? except some on ebay for birds. can someone send me a link to a place i can purchase it?
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, sorry to hear that your baby is not well. Keep dusting his food with calcium D3 powder until you can get the liquid. If it's warm where you live take him out in the sun. Just be careful if it's very hot , never take him in a glass tank or set him on cement, just set with him in the grass. Natural sun can help reverse calcium deficiency quickly. One of the mods. here [ Drache613 ] sells liquid calcium, here's her website. http://www.bugdelite.com

Since you got the Reptisun 10.0 t8, mount it on the inside of the screen using wire or even fishing line like this. Mounting it inside the screen will give much better uvb.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/30028/full
 

madirocks

Member
Original Poster
Thank you so much for the link! I’ll try to mount it. Do i wrap the wire around the light itself or behind it? Won’t it melt?
 
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