Bearded dragon's mouth is very swollen

Just PM'ed Tracie. Hopefully she will have a clue as to what to do. Thank you for your help though! I will update again if anything happens, positive or negative..

Hello,

I will return your PM also. So sorry he is still having some trouble.
They don't think that a surgery would be worth a shot to at least remove all or part of it so
that it isn't so much of a nuisance for him?
I wouldn't want to keep him on an antibiotic for life, either. I"m glad to hear he is eating,
that is great news!

Tracie

This is very bizarre...If he has "an incurable infection", which doesn't make sense to begin with, especially if all the culture detected was Pseudomonas, then what good would "putting him on antibiotics for the rest of his life" do? Pseudomonas is very treatable, but that is likely not the cause of the infection or growth in his mouth (if the growth is caused by an infection, I'm not sure if that's what they're saying, or are they two different issues?). Did they do a needle aspiration of the growth to diagnose what it is? None of this makes any sense at all, I certainly wouldn't put him on an antibiotic long-term if they're saying his infection is "incurable", which makes no sense anyway...I'd be calling and asking for a much better explanation from the vet directly.

None of this makes sense to me either... My vet doesn't deal with exotic animals/reptiles at all so I can understand why they are not making sense.. The girl who called to tell me the results didn't know anything about the infection, or much of anything really, which was absolutely no help. I asked to speak to the vet and I was pretty much told no... I totally agree putting him on antibiotics would do nothing but hurt him, also since he is almost 9 years old, I'm not very comfortable putting him under for surgery.. I'm to the point where I feel helpless and theres nothing I can do.. I'm just glad he still eats and has regular, normal looking bowel movements. I did give him alittle honey this morning, and he took it well.. Just hoping some sort of miracle will come from this...

Too add to my previous reply, I only took a mouth swab not a needle aspiration. The lady who called me only said these exact words... "He has Pseudomonas, a growth and a secondary infection which is incurable." Not awhole lot of information there to start with, and she didn't have anything else to say other than the vet wants to put him on antibiotics long term..

Hello,

I am going to try to do some research because there should be something that can be done,
other than just place him on an indefinite round of antibiotics, poor guy.
How is he doing today?

Tracie

He was just fine today. He ate some of his greens, had a bowel movement so I had to give him a bath, but he went right back to eating after that. So I would say he is doing pretty good for what is going on.

So the growth isn't painful if he's eating with no issues, that's good at least...I'm just trying to figure out this "code" your vet gave you, lol...the fact that she has "a growth" is pretty obvious, that one I get, lol, but they have absolutely no idea what the growth is if they did no needle aspiration/biopsy. So it could just be a cyst, it could be tumor, or it could be an abscess. So they basically have no idea what it is and don't seem to really care either...the Pseudomonas I'm ignoring, as #1 Pseudomonas is everywhere and is very common to find in a mouth and everywhere else, and it's an "opportunistic infection/bacteria", meaning that unless she has an underlying disease or condition that is compromising her immune system, the Pseudomonas will cause her absolutely no issues, and not cause an active infection at all. So forget about it...now they said she has "a secondary infection that is incurable"...you need to ask them what kind of infection this "secondary, incurable infection" is. That's what you need an answer to. And you should also ask them where this secondary infection is: is it in her mouth, in her throat, in the growth (abscess), etc.? So I would start there, because that's going to solve a lot of this. What is the "secondary, incurable infection", what bacteria or fungi or protozoa showed up on the culture, and why are they saying it's "incurable", and where was this particular infection found?

Honestly, I think they are bullshitting you, I think they only found Pseudomonas on the culture (because they failed to do a needle aspiration to actually diagnose what the growth is) and they know damn well that Pseudomonas is not causing her any issues, so they basically don't have a clue what is wrong with her but are afraid to not do anything or to not put her on some kind of antibiotic, and they're thinking "she's already 9 years old", so I think the vet just said "tell her she has a Pseudomonas infection, which is true and not a lie, and tell her that she's got some other, secondary infection that cannot be cured, and we'll just prescribe a broad-spectrum antibiotic and be done with it".

If you call them and ask what microbe is causing the "secondary infection" and ask why it's incurable and why she needs to be on antibiotics for the rest of her life, and they cannot give you a direct answer, like "The secondary infection came back as Staph Aureus and it's in her mouth" (just an example of what they should be able to tell you if they really did in fact diagnose another infection in her mouth), then you'll know they are lying and have no clue what's wrong with her.

In reply to Ellen, all great points. I completely agree with everything you've been saying. My local vet has just about zero experience with reptiles, so not much hope there unfortunately..
Another problem is that the lady who I'm communicating with over the phone about the results knowns absolutely nothing about it. She doesn't know anything about the infection, the growth, the results, nothing.. She did just now call me back to talk about the treatment option they want to use and apparently they have come up with, "We want to trial him on Baytril, again, this time up to 6 weeks." At which point I told her that I'm refusing their treatment option and I'm trying my own "remedies".
No way I'm putting my almost 9 year old bearded dragon on 6 weeks of extreme antibiotics, he would starve to death.
On a side note, I have been giving him some at home remedies such as, diffusing (non humidifying) Doterra essential oils into his cage, using some raw honey on his mouth, and mixing diluted colloidal silver on his greens. So I'll trial this for a few weeks to see how that goes, and I will keep updating along the way.

Hello,

I hope he is doing well today.
Since the Baytril didn't work, that particular drug is a broad spectrum so it isn't specific just to
a gram negative or a gram positive bacteria.
Pseudomonas are gram negative bacterias & are resistant to a lot of medications. You could try
Piperacillin or Carbenicillin, they have been used to treat gram negative bacterias but still have
some resistance. Those are a more specific meds & are used short term.
Ceftazidamine works specifically on gram negative bacteria, which might be helpful.
That growth should be able to be removed, they didn't suggest that at all?? You can try to look
for another vet here:

www.herpvetconnection.com


I personally think he would be more comfortable with it removed. The raw honey is very good
so definitely continue to use that. Definitely keep us updated on him.

Tracie

Hello Tracie, he is doing fine today, thanks. I will keep those medications in mind incase anything gets worse. I intend to trial the at home remedies before I jump into more antibiotics, especially since I don't know how my vet would respond to that. Also, unfortunately since I live on a very remote island in Alaska there is no herp vets in my area or anywhere near me.. :/
On the topic of getting the growth removed, since he is such an older dragon, I wouldn't want to risk putting him under. Especially since he eats everyday and it doesn't seem to bother him too much. But like I said, if anything starts getting worse I will definitely consider all the options.

Just a super quick update, he is doing absolutely great. Other than the growth in his mouth, he seems like a completely normal dragon. Eats everyday, has a bowel movement about every other day, he is currently going through some shedding which I'm happy to see! So I will continue the at home remedies and care. Thank you everyone for the help and feed back

Here is a photo of him from today:

That's great, and he does look much more comfortable there. Have you been using the raw honey ?

zoeodette":1j39wqcg said:

The lady who called didn't seem to know much about the results other than he has "a growth and a secondary infection that is incurable".. He does eat though! He gets very excited when I give him his breakfast. Here is a picture of the growth in his mouth.

Click to expand...

Oh my .... a month on Baytril and no results .

I'd ask the vet for a copy of the pathology report and post it here , there is a chance some one here will have some incites and perhaps know what to do about it.

Especially, is the growth a cancer ? or some kind of abscess ?

I'm still worried about those very puffy looking eyes .... indication of other things going on that need addressing.

zoeodette":1i51zly6 said:

Just a super quick update, he is doing absolutely great. Other than the growth in his mouth, he seems like a completely normal dragon. Eats everyday, has a bowel movement about every other day, he is currently going through some shedding which I'm happy to see! So I will continue the at home remedies and care. Thank you everyone for the help and feed back

Here is a photo of him from today:

Click to expand...

Wow !! ...
That's a big improvement in about a week.

See my other post about the puffy eyes.