Beardie Health Depleting?

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Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby JewelsJones » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:02 pm

My breadie had been acting up lately since I've had little time to be with him now a days. He used to be so okay with me and now he lays on the cool side of his tank 24/7, never eats, and if I pick him up he hisses and bites me. He is about 9 months old and never used to do this.

Eating (when he does): Mealworms and fruit. He doesn't touch crickets and runs away from cockroaches. He hasn't been eating lately and the onlt way I can get him to eat is by making him hiss and open his mouth, while having Flucker's Buffet Blend (Juvenile kind) pellets on the ready and putting anywhere from 1 to 2 at a time, only feeding him 8.

Caging: Heat lamp is above a hammock and three reptile safe logs for him to lay on and bask (all in the same area) and his live mealworms in a high sided dish. The cool side has his buffet blend and fruit in, as well as a skull to hide under and a water dish. He had been laying on the cool side of his tanj for the past week. Also the mat is the desert, stoney mat I got. Poo is cleaned about everyday

Handling: Letting him onto my hand and let him moves where he wants but I do watch him to make sure he'll be fine and not get hurt.

Cage mates: None. I want to get him one but my mom is scared of babies since I'm so busy.

Help? Is there anything I'm doing wrong? Is he just mad at me?
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby Drache613 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:46 pm

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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby Drache613 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:54 pm

Hello,

Sorry to hear your dragon isn't doing very well right now.
It is possible that he could be moping or pouting if you haven't been able to spend much time
with him, they do behave in that manner sometimes! Or, he could be trying to brumate right
now, since it is getting to be that time of year.
He bites & hisses at you now? Maybe try wrapping him up burrito style, in one of your shirts
at night & place him on your chest so that he can get used to your scent again.
I hope he isn't acting this way, because he is having a health issue. Has his beard been black
lately or not?
I wouldn't recommend getting him a tank mate, he is best alone. Plus, placing another dragon
that is smaller or younger in with him could be a death sentence for the youngster, too.
Are you using a UVB light for him & if so, what type/brand is it? How often do you use calcium
& any type of vitamins for him?
How are you measuring his temperatures?

Tracie
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby EllenD » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:20 am

He's hissing and biting you because you've admitted that you don't have enough time to spend with him anymore...He's not eating because he has no UVB light, so he has not been able to manufacture any vitamin D3, he's absorbed little to no Calcium, vitamins, or basic nutrition, and he most likely has the start of MBD. Bearded dragons need a very specific type of UVB light from hatching on through their entire lives, without one they become lethargic, stop eating, stop growing, and develop bone density diseases. He could also be hissing and biting you because he's sick from a total lack of UVB light and improper temperatures, as well as you feeding him freeze-dried mealworms, he shouldn't be fed even live mealworms, as they are nothing but fat and shells they have trouble digesting, especially with improper temperatures and no UVB light.

You need to go out and buy him either an 18" or 24" long, flourescent Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube or an Arcadia 12% UVB tube and matching long, flourescent tube light fixture, figure you need to spend $50 or so on just the tube UVB light and the fixture, no compact or coil UVB lights at all, and no Zilla, Reptile One, or All Living Things UVB tubes, they are cheap and will cause even more issues.

You also need a digital probe thermometer, no stick-on thermometers that are off by 20 degrees, and get his basking spot temperature between 100-105, his Hot Side Ambient between 88-93, and his Cool Side between 75-80. Hopefully you're using a bright white basking/heat bulb and no colored bulbs, you're goal is to replicate natural sunlight by putting the correct wavelength and strength UVB light and bright white basking bulb next to each other and over his basking spot, so colored bulbs obviously aren't appropriate.

My suggestion to you is to post photos of him, his enclosure, and your lights, list the brands and models/colors of lights, along with your temperatures, and let us help you with your husbandry and his diet, as it sounds like he's not well due to improper lighting, temps, and diet. And please, if you admit you have no time for the beardie you have, and you have improper husbandry for him, why would you consider getting a second bearded dragon? YOU CANNOT KEEP THEM TOGETHER IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TWO SEPARATE ENCLOSURES AND LIGHTING SETUPS FOR EACH!!! Bearded dragons are solitary animals and do not hang out together at all in the wild. Only males and females ever come together just to mate, that's it, then they separate. HE DOESN'T WANT A TANKMATE! If you were to put another beardie in his tank with him (especially if he is a male) one or both of them will end up seriously injured or dead. It's creates enormous stress for both of them and they typically both become injured, lose toes, feet, and tails, stop eating, and stop growing. So you need to work on getting the lighting, temperatures, and diet corrected for the beardie you have first. We'll be happy to help you if we know what you're currently using for lighting, what your temps are, etc. He need live insects every day along with fresh greens, no freeze-dried or dead insects, no pellets, and no mealworms at all, alive or dead...Once his lighting, temps, and daily supplements are corrected he'll start eating again, but needs live, gut-loaded crickets, roaches, BSFL, Silkworms, etc.
"Dance like nobody's watching..."
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby JewelsJones » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:01 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Sorry to hear your dragon isn't doing very well right now.
It is possible that he could be moping or pouting if you haven't been able to spend much time
with him, they do behave in that manner sometimes! Or, he could be trying to brumate right
now, since it is getting to be that time of year.
He bites & hisses at you now? Maybe try wrapping him up burrito style, in one of your shirts
at night & place him on your chest so that he can get used to your scent again.
I hope he isn't acting this way, because he is having a health issue. Has his beard been black
lately or not?
I wouldn't recommend getting him a tank mate, he is best alone. Plus, placing another dragon
that is smaller or younger in with him could be a death sentence for the youngster, too.
Are you using a UVB light for him & if so, what type/brand is it? How often do you use calcium
& any type of vitamins for him?
How are you measuring his temperatures?

Tracie


The problem is with a shirt and curling him up close to me at night is that I have a cat that sleeps in my room. She doesn't try to attack my beardie when I have him out and she comes in, but he tries to attack her (I don't leave them roam around each other. Qibli is in my hand 99% of the time she's in my room).

Qibli doesn't have a black beard till I pick him up or my cat come in the room and he sees her. Other than that, it's typically is white sandy scale color.

Another dragon is really out of the question for me. I don't have the money to buy one that is as large as Qibli, and that it is female. Plus Qibli, my lepord gecko, dogs, fish, and cats are all I can handle at the moment with school and a fulltime job.

As far as UVB lighting, heat wise I believe it's Zoomed. I threw the box away and I can't remember off the top of my head. I remember the animal on the logo is a green ignauga if that helps at all. Lighting wise, it's two 4-6 inch zoo med lights. I also have a blue nighttime bulb by zoomed as well, but I barely use that. It never produces enough heat and has a weird blue shade to it.

Calcium and vitamins are used but Qibli won't eat anything with the powders on. Also temperture is measured with an electronic zoomed therometer.
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby JewelsJones » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:14 pm

EllenD wrote:He's hissing and biting you because you've admitted that you don't have enough time to spend with him anymore...He's not eating because he has no UVB light, so he has not been able to manufacture any vitamin D3, he's absorbed little to no Calcium, vitamins, or basic nutrition, and he most likely has the start of MBD. Bearded dragons need a very specific type of UVB light from hatching on through their entire lives, without one they become lethargic, stop eating, stop growing, and develop bone density diseases. He could also be hissing and biting you because he's sick from a total lack of UVB light and improper temperatures, as well as you feeding him freeze-dried mealworms, he shouldn't be fed even live mealworms, as they are nothing but fat and shells they have trouble digesting, especially with improper temperatures and no UVB light.

You need to go out and buy him either an 18" or 24" long, flourescent Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube or an Arcadia 12% UVB tube and matching long, flourescent tube light fixture, figure you need to spend $50 or so on just the tube UVB light and the fixture, no compact or coil UVB lights at all, and no Zilla, Reptile One, or All Living Things UVB tubes, they are cheap and will cause even more issues.

You also need a digital probe thermometer, no stick-on thermometers that are off by 20 degrees, and get his basking spot temperature between 100-105, his Hot Side Ambient between 88-93, and his Cool Side between 75-80. Hopefully you're using a bright white basking/heat bulb and no colored bulbs, you're goal is to replicate natural sunlight by putting the correct wavelength and strength UVB light and bright white basking bulb next to each other and over his basking spot, so colored bulbs obviously aren't appropriate.

My suggestion to you is to post photos of him, his enclosure, and your lights, list the brands and models/colors of lights, along with your temperatures, and let us help you with your husbandry and his diet, as it sounds like he's not well due to improper lighting, temps, and diet. And please, if you admit you have no time for the beardie you have, and you have improper husbandry for him, why would you consider getting a second bearded dragon? YOU CANNOT KEEP THEM TOGETHER IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TWO SEPARATE ENCLOSURES AND LIGHTING SETUPS FOR EACH!!! Bearded dragons are solitary animals and do not hang out together at all in the wild. Only males and females ever come together just to mate, that's it, then they separate. HE DOESN'T WANT A TANKMATE! If you were to put another beardie in his tank with him (especially if he is a male) one or both of them will end up seriously injured or dead. It's creates enormous stress for both of them and they typically both become injured, lose toes, feet, and tails, stop eating, and stop growing. So you need to work on getting the lighting, temperatures, and diet corrected for the beardie you have first. We'll be happy to help you if we know what you're currently using for lighting, what your temps are, etc. He need live insects every day along with fresh greens, no freeze-dried or dead insects, no pellets, and no mealworms at all, alive or dead...Once his lighting, temps, and daily supplements are corrected he'll start eating again, but needs live, gut-loaded crickets, roaches, BSFL, Silkworms, etc.




Okay. To start off, not to be mean at all, but I don't have a lot of money. Buying $50 lights will be impossible. Second, with not having that money to buy lights, I could never afford another beardie till I can get a better job/longer hours. (2.5, Beardies are not solitary creatures. They are social animals that live in groups of 2 or 3, one being male, as long as their is a large enough space for them and enough food). Third and final thing, I've tried everything to get him to eat crickets, roaches, and waxworms. He will not eat anything but live mealworms. I do not feed him freezedried mealworms, only my hermit crabs (forgot in the last post to mention with all my other animals.. sorry) do. The only reason I'm feeding him pellets at the moment is because it's all I got till I get him live bugs, as well as they won't jump out of his mouth. Yes, I need help on my beardie's diet, but he is being so picky on what he eats that it's hard getting him the vitamins he needs, since he won't eat anything with vitamins on either.

I'll get picks soon enough when I figure out all the brands.
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby EllenD » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:58 pm

Bearded dragons absolutely do not live in groups at all, they are completely solitary. The only time they live together is when they are forced to in captivity. Only more than one female has ever been kept together successfully without an issue, and that's rare.

Not to be rude to you, I know you're a kid, but you're the one who said "you want to get another beardie, but my mom...", So I commented that you cannot put another beardie together with him. I know you're a teenager, but I'm telling you what appropriate UVB lighting is. If you can't afford appropriate lighting you shouldn't have the pet, and certainly shouldn't be talking about getting another.

And I'm 37 years old, have a master's degree in Animal Health Science, and have successfully raised multiple beardies that have all been healthy, huge, and properly taken care of. You came on here asking for help because your beardie is sick, so I'm telling you what needs to be corrected, and you have the nerve to tell me you cannot afford proper lighting, after first proving you know absolutely nothing about bearded dragons to beging with...I don't know who told you they live in groups, but you're very, very wrong, and I advise you to do your research, as the beardie you already have needs a proper environment and husbandry. Beardies come together in their natural environment (Australia desert) to mate, then separate. The mother lays eggs and leaves. The babies hatch and separate. They never live in groups, not ever, only makes and females come together in the wild, and only for just enough time to mate. Sorry, but you're wrong. Not that it matters, but you need to learn to take constructive criticism (it wasn't even criticism, but rather correcting your husbandry).

If you think you're bearded dragon "Needs a tankmate" for any reason (he doesn't want a tankmate and this will only result in tragedy) after admitting that you neglect him, yet you wonder why he's biting you now", and then say you want another beardie, then get angry and yell at me that "$50 lights are out of the question", you've got a lot of issues going on. I was only trying to help you help your beardie. If you don't want help, don't ask for it.
"Dance like nobody's watching..."
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:17 am

JewelsJones wrote:
Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Sorry to hear your dragon isn't doing very well right now.
It is possible that he could be moping or pouting if you haven't been able to spend much time
with him, they do behave in that manner sometimes! Or, he could be trying to brumate right
now, since it is getting to be that time of year.

He bites & hisses at you now? Maybe try wrapping him up burrito style, in one of your shirts
at night & place him on your chest so that he can get used to your scent again.
I hope he isn't acting this way, because he is having a health issue. Has his beard been black
lately or not?
I wouldn't recommend getting him a tank mate, he is best alone. Plus, placing another dragon
that is smaller or younger in with him could be a death sentence for the youngster, too.
Are you using a UVB light for him & if so, what type/brand is it? How often do you use calcium
& any type of vitamins for him?
How are you measuring his temperatures?

Tracie


The problem is with a shirt and curling him up close to me at night is that I have a cat that sleeps in my room. She doesn't try to attack my beardie when I have him out and she comes in

<<< she WILL ( attack the dragon ) and it only takes a moment for a cat to inflict a lethal penetration injury that will kill the dragon slowly because of the drug resistant and very nasty strains of bacteria and viruses on their claws and fangs ,
or to break the hatchling's back or neck
or to bite it hard enough to rupture internal organs and cause it to die an agonizing slow death. NEVER ALLOW the cat in the same room as the dragon EVER .

If the hatchling is coming out , the cat has to be locked away in the bathroom or laundry or an animal carrier that is cat escape proof . NEVER EVER TRUST A CAT when there are lizards about.


, but he tries to attack her (I don't leave them roam around each other. Qibli is in my hand 99% of the time she's in my room).

<<<< Keep the cat away from and out of sight of the hatchling (FOR EVER) , if the cat sees there a lizard in the house IT WILL WANT TO GET TO IT AND IT WILL TORTURE IT TO DEATH .

>>>> Ask your dad or someone who is handy with wood working to make a CAT PROOF LID for the viv .
A mesh ( no matter what kind of mesh it is ) will not stop the cat from breaking into the viv to attack the hatchling
And don't try to tell me your cat is gentle and would never harm a flea, cats are hardwired killers and they don't hunt and torture ( cat lovers call it play - it's not , it's sadistic torture ) not because they are hungry but because to them - it's fun.

>>>> NEVER EVER LET A CAT in the same room as the dragon, even when it's in it's viv, the sight of a cat and the smell of it is enough to terrorize a small lizard , ----- this may well be why the dragon is failing to thrive, it's terrorized and highly stressed by the cat stalking it and trying to get into it's viv when no one is watching (cats are sneeky !!!).

>>>> the cat and the dragon WILL NEVER BE FRIENDS.

>>>> I don't want to read in a week or so "woe is me , my cat attacked my dragon and now he's bleeding and can't move and I think he's dying" , so please take our advise .

<<<< protect him from the cat
>>>> never let the cat even in the same room that he is in
>>>> no tank mate.
>>>> get the UVB and UVA and temperatures right.



Qibli doesn't have a black beard till I pick him up or my cat come in the room and he sees her. Other than that, it's typically is white sandy scale color. <<<< he's terrified of the cat and it's very likely been trying to get into Qibli's viv

Another dragon is really out of the question for me. I don't have the money to buy one that is as large as Qibli, and that it is female. Plus Qibli, my lepord gecko, dogs, fish, and cats are all I can handle at the moment with school and a fulltime job.

As far as UVB lighting, heat wise I believe it's Zoomed. I threw the box away and I can't remember off the top of my head. I remember the animal on the logo is a green ignauga if that helps at all.
<<< no help at , when the lights are turned off , take a look at the lights and not the information printed on them and photograph them ,we should be able see what they are then.

Lighting wise, it's two 4-6 inch zoo med lights.
<<< sounds like compacts , are they 13W or 26W , and what are they rated at in %UVB ?
<<< are they mounted above or below the mesh lid ( I hope you don't have a mesh lid with cats roaming the house , only thing that will keep cats out is a solid timber lid that's hinged and locked down.


I also have a blue nighttime bulb by zoomed as well, but I barely use that. It never produces enough heat and has a weird blue shade to it.

<<< ditch the blue moonlight globe - it's worthless for a bearded dragon.

Calcium and vitamins are used but Qibli won't eat anything with the powders on.
<<<< try liquid calcium and liquid reptile vitamins , you'll need to give daily orally by syringe.
Also temperture is measured with an electronic zoomed therometer.


If you think I'm overreacting about the presence of the cat , I'm not , I've seen at first hand how cats treat smaller animals they hunt and catch , and have seen many example of what happens to lizards who run into a cat , and know of several cases where cats have broken into vivs to attack and kill pet lizards and of cases where cats have suddenly attacked lizards who were allow to be in their presence by foolish owners who thought they could trust their cat .

ALWAYS ENDS BADLY FOR THE LIZARD !!!
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Beardie Health Depleting?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:38 am

EllenD wrote:Bearded dragons absolutely do not live in groups at all, they are completely solitary. The only time they live together is when they are forced to in captivity. Only more than one female has ever been kept together successfully without an issue, and that's rare.
....
....
....
If you think you're bearded dragon "Needs a tankmate" for any reason (he doesn't want a tankmate and this will only result in tragedy) after admitting that you neglect him, yet you wonder why he's biting you now", and then say you want another beardie, then get angry and yell at me that "$50 lights are out of the question", you've got a lot of issues going on. I was only trying to help you help your beardie. If you don't want help, don't ask for it.


Only dragons who form colonies are Rankins Dragons , and Netted Dragons , and young (hatchling and juvenile) eastern water dragons.

Bearded dragons live alone and have for themselves from the moment they emerge from their eggs , if mom or dad dragon comes across them they are apt to catch and eat them.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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