Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

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Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Nxkkx1234 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:49 am

i have a 4 year old bearded dragon ( her birthday is today) she is treated like a queen, she has not used her left back leg since Wednesday, she rises it and limps about when walking, but she uses it for digging, this leg twitches and her other leg is starting to twitch too. 2 weeks ago she was sprinting around lively and jumping after her bugs, chasing cats, living life to the fullest and then nothing, bed bound dragging her poor leg about.

so been to the vets twice now, 1st time they told me Angelina could have broken her back leg, but they couldn't feel anything out of the ordinary so they gave her an anti-inflammatory injection, that was Wednesday. I took her back today for an Xray and have been told she is healthy with good strong bones :) this was a confidence booster as i thought it could be MBD, and there are also no blockages in her body. but i have been told it may have something to do with her spine, aka a neurological disorder, waiting to hear back from the specialist who will look at her xrays. I don't know what this means for her, any comments about muscle and neurological disorders, help, advice, stories would love to hear from somebody.

she is also off her food at the moment, although is currently shedding
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby EllenD » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:08 am

Oh, what a horrible situation for her and for you. I would have automatically assumed MBD due to the weak back legs and the twitches in both back legs too. Did they happen to do blood work to see what her blood Calcium level is?

Something that I would immediately call your Reptile vet about and get blood work done for is a Vitamin B1 deficiency (Thiamine deficiency), as the signs and symptoms of a Thiamine deficiency mimick the signs and symptoms of MBD almost exactly. We just had another member with the exact same thing going on for a month, healthy then all of a sudden the same symptoms appeared. He had perfect husbandry and diet, his lighting was the best available at correct distances, everything was perfect. X-rays were completely normal (2 sets). I suggested a possible different deficiency like Thiamine/Vitamin B1 or a Thyroid issue (another possibility, but I would test for this after the Thiamine deficiency), and turns out that his beardie had exactly that.

I'd give your reptile vet a call ASAP and tell him that we've seen a number of beardies with classic signs of MBD that have turned out to be a Vitamin B1/Thiamine deficiency instead. It's very treatable and the effects can usually be reversed.
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Nxkkx1234 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:34 am

Thank you so much for your help. lack of vitamin b1 could be our answer as she has NEVER eaten her veg we put it out everyday kale, squash and rocket mostly. We are currently driving about looking for a suplimnet, can you mabe link us to the thread where the other user had the problem, would be nice to look at there story.

Thank you thank you
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Nxkkx1234 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:56 pm

well... we got a call from the specialist and it turns out there IS a blockage! of follicles. Which I am told is undeveloped eggs, or eggs in status, which is putting pressure on her stomach and spine trapping nerves and muscles causing her limp back legs and twitching as well as lack of apatite. She will need surgery to remove them and the female reproductive organs, costing a whooping £500/800. which needless to say we are going ahead with, making our Angelina well again is all we want, we are waiting for a phone call on dates today, we have taken your advice on bored and have purchased brewers yeast for her vitamin levels which i have read glowing results about. Thank you for talking to me :) also if you have any more information on the above I would love to hear about it.
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby AHBD » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:19 am

A healthy beardie can get through the surgery with no problem, there was a member here years ago whos beardie ate either the same day of surgery or the next ! This was documented with pics, the cut is usually pretty big.

On a bit of a warning note, there were at least 2 members who had theirs spayed only to continue to develop eggs again the following year....so not all spays are true spays in the sense of what we think or not all vets can honestly do them completely.
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Drache613 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:12 pm

Hello,

Poor baby, I am sorry to hear she is blocked up with eggs! Sometimes they can lay eggs after being spayed. If they have eggs in the ovaducts that were not layed or removed sometimes they will travel down & get laid after a surgery.
How is she doing, have you scheduled the surgery?
Let us know how Angelina is doing!

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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Drache613 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:13 pm

Moved by Moderator from General to ER
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:52 pm

Nxkkx1234 wrote:well... we got a call from the specialist and it turns out there IS a blockage! of follicles. Which I am told is undeveloped eggs, or eggs in status, which is putting pressure on her stomach and spine trapping nerves and muscles causing her limp back legs and twitching as well as lack of apatite. She will need surgery to remove them and the female reproductive organs, costing a whooping £500/800. which needless to say we are going ahead with, making our Angelina well again is all we want, we are waiting for a phone call on dates today, we have taken your advice on bored and have purchased brewers yeast for her vitamin levels which i have read glowing results about. Thank you for talking to me :) also if you have any more information on the above I would love to hear about it.


Sounds like you adore her, she's a very lucky girl to have you.

I hope all goes well with her surgery and she's back to her old self before long .
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby EllenD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:32 am

Any update on your girl?
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby AHBD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:40 am

Actually the dragons I referred to layed eggs many months later or the next year after the spay. Very strange for sure ! So I tried to post the link but once again the site won't let me. This reference is from a thread made here on bd.org in 2014 ....just Google " spayed bearded dragon still has eggs forming ". It was spayed the year before.
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby EllenD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:14 am

AHBD, I've heard of this before as well, a beardie laying eggs quite a while after being spayed...Have you heard any explanation as to how or why this happens? I'd love to hear the reasoning, as I can't imagine that eggs that weren't removed remain inside their ducts for that long without causing other issues much sooner, like an infection? Maybe I'm wrong, I've just never heard any explanation as to how this happens and I'm intrigued...
"Dance like nobody's watching..."
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby AHBD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:37 am

No, I don't understand it either. Do they miss part of the reproductive anatomy ? Are they not really keen on exactly how to do the procedure and then tell the client something just to appease them + keep them from blaming the vet ? I just don't know.
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:41 am

EllenD wrote:AHBD, I've heard of this before as well, a beardie laying eggs quite a while after being spayed...Have you heard any explanation as to how or why this happens? I'd love to hear the reasoning, as I can't imagine that eggs that weren't removed remain inside their ducts for that long without causing other issues much sooner, like an infection? Maybe I'm wrong, I've just never heard any explanation as to how this happens and I'm intrigued...


Hypothesis : perhaps it's an evolutionary adaptation , storing some eggs in a kind of stasis til climatic conditions improve , then producing young very quickly to take advantage of a very good food supply.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Nxkkx1234 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Angelina had her surgery on friday, she is recovering well, we had blood tests which all came back positive, she is a very stong and healthy dragon :).

The total cost was £800.66 and I was able to take her home the same day. she ate bugs the next day and is now walking again, I give her pain relief every morning and she opens her mouth for me, she is a vey good girl. she hates the injections but to be honest we probably are not great at giving them :s I hate needles. She has 4 stitches and the cut was 2 inches, she doesn't seem bothered by it, her leg still twitches a little but that is to be exspected, the vet say this happens when there "ovaries pack up" I have a picture of the follicals next to Angelina after the surgery its hard to believe all those red blobs where inside of her, no wonder she lost the use of her legs. wish I could make her pain go away over night but for now im just sooooo happy to see her back in her viv, she still wont touch her veg mabe you guys have an idea as to making my stubborn baby eat anything other than bugs
[Click image to enlarge]
Last edited by Nxkkx1234 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poor Angelina. unknown illness?

Postby Nxkkx1234 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Angelina has a fan page https://m.facebook.com/AngelinaTheDragon/
[Click image to enlarge]
Last edited by Nxkkx1234 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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