Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

This forum is for urgent health concerns, where your beardie seems very ill and you need immediate help!

Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby LeyannaVeryll » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:33 am

My bearded dragon named Zippy is about 10 years old, and relatively small for his age, because his previous owner kept him in a waaay too small vivarium together with another male. I got them when they were 4. The other male died about 1,5 year ago from an impaction even the meds couldn't solve.

Now, Zippy is showing likewise symptoms; he's lethargic, doesn't show interest in food and refuses to lick babyfood from his nose. His hind legs are NOT paralyzed, though.
I've tried giving him some oil, babyfood, daily baths and prume juice, feeding him with a syringe. He poops occasionally, but his feces are mainly a bright white urate and runny poo with a grey-ish colour. No bad smell. I already tested him on parasites with a homekit; he doesn't have any untwanted passengers.
One thing I notice is when I try to bathe him, he seems to be extra ill. His beard and back become black-ish, and he sometimes even closes his eyes and kinda stops responding, like he's dying.
A few days back I felt a big lump in his belly. It was hard and trying to massage it to the vent was somehow very unpleasent to him, as he just scratched me with his back legs, wiggling himself loose from me. It almost like he's telling me to let him go :( .
He's losing weight rapidly and I need to help him out ASAP.

My vivarium was built by a proffesional reptile breeder, but it does contain very coarse sand. He also fitted an Exo-Terra Reptile UVB coil, because the vivarium isn't big enough for a tube. It has a basking spot where temps are roughly 40 degrees Celcius. The guy owns 7 perfectly healthy bearded dragons so I know he knows what he's doing.

I hope this is enough info to work with!

p.s. I can't go to a vet because the only reptile vet nearby is on holiday for two weeks, and I can't really travel very far. :banghead:

p.p.s. I also live in the Netherlands where getting drugs for animals without a consult is awfully hard, but my dog's vet said he's willing to help.
LeyannaVeryll
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:59 am

LeyannaVeryll wrote:My bearded dragon named Zippy is about 10 years old, and relatively small for his age, because his previous owner kept him in a waaay too small vivarium together with another male. I got them when they were 4. The other male died about 1,5 year ago from an impaction even the meds couldn't solve.

Now, Zippy is showing likewise symptoms; he's lethargic, doesn't show interest in food and refuses to lick babyfood from his nose. His hind legs are NOT paralyzed, though.
I've tried giving him some oil, babyfood, daily baths and prume juice, feeding him with a syringe. He poops occasionally, but his feces are mainly a bright white urate and runny poo with a grey-ish colour. No bad smell. I already tested him on parasites with a homekit; he doesn't have any untwanted passengers.
One thing I notice is when I try to bathe him, he seems to be extra ill. His beard and back become black-ish, and he sometimes even closes his eyes and kinda stops responding, like he's dying.
A few days back I felt a big lump in his belly. It was hard and trying to massage it to the vent was somehow very unpleasent to him, as he just scratched me with his back legs, wiggling himself loose from me. It almost like he's telling me to let him go :( .
He's losing weight rapidly and I need to help him out ASAP.

My vivarium was built by a proffesional reptile breeder, but it does contain very coarse sand. <<<< there is the cause - most likely ..... I recommend
1) DITCH THE SAND IMMEDIATELY
2) you get him to good reptile vet PRONTO, do not delay this , and get him thoroughly checked (including xrays to check for blockages and maybe check by thin needle biopsy that lump

He also fitted an Exo-Terra Reptile UVB coil, because the vivarium isn't big enough for a tube. It has a basking spot where temps are roughly 40 degrees Celcius. The guy owns 7 perfectly healthy bearded dragons so I know he knows what he's doing.

<<<< maybe he only thinks he knows what he's talking about.
What are the dimensions of the tank (L x W x H) ? An adult bearded dragon requires at least a 120Gal tank (4ft L x 2ft W footprint MINIMUM).

Is the compact rated at least 10% UVB ? how far from him is it when he's basking ?

I hope this is enough info to work with!

p.s. I can't go to a vet because the only reptile vet nearby is on holiday for two weeks, and I can't really travel very far. :banghead: <<< IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR BEARDIE - SORRY BUT FIND A WAY TO HIM TO SEE A VET - as this sounds like he is CRITICALLY ILL and SUFFERING and IMO it sounds like your beardie has been allowed to suffer too long without a proper vet examination or prospect of proper treatment.
Even if you have to pay extra for the vet's staff to collect him or a house call ... how much do you value your pet ?

REALITY CHECK : The Netherlands is a VERY SMALL country .... there should be no problem finding another vet very nearby ( as everything is nearby in country )

he needs URGENT VET TREATMENT , perhaps under a general to move the impaction if that is what it is ....


p.p.s. I also live in the Netherlands where getting drugs for animals without a consult is awfully hard, but my dog's vet said he's willing to help.<<< he will most like consult with a colleague in another practice who he knows and is knowledgeable about reptiles so he's better than procrastinating while your beardie is critically ill, in agony and suffering.

Here is a list of Reptile Vets in your country .
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/netherlands.html
I live in Australia and it took me under a minute to find this list.
The Netherlands occupies an area of 41,543 km² , and nowhere there is more than about 100km from anywhere else there.

In the meantime , NO MORE SOLIDS , GIVE him only liquid foods until he has passed the blockage , as more solid foods will only exacerbate the problem
..
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Addict
 
Posts: 6730
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby LeyannaVeryll » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:23 am

The vivarium is 60cmx40cmx80cm. And I forgot to mention I am actively searching for a vet. I just want to make him comfortable until I find one (I have called at least 12 different vets nearby, none which treat bearded dragons). The 'collecting' thing you mention isn't done here with small animals. Also, he's only been like this for a couple of days. It started with just a black beard. I think the lump in his belly may be a huge urate. Sorry if my post didn't convey my message properly :( (english is not my first language.)
LeyannaVeryll
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:39 am

LeyannaVeryll wrote:The vivarium is 60cmx40cmx80cm. And I forgot to mention I am actively searching for a vet. I just want to make him comfortable until I find one (I have called at least 12 different vets nearby, none which treat bearded dragons). The 'collecting' thing you mention isn't done here with small animals. Also, he's only been like this for a couple of days. It started with just a black beard. I think the lump in his belly may be a huge urate. Sorry if my post didn't convey my message properly :( (english is not my first language.)


That is WAY TOO SMALL for an adult bearded dragon. ONLY satisfactory for hatchlings and juveniles to about 1 year old.

Lizards are very good at hiding when they are feeling ill , they can be very sick for a long time and hiding it until it becomes critical / life threatening and this sound to me to be life threatening and very painful for him.

I'd ask, I'm sure arrangements can be made to collect a sick animal (for a fee), it's not commonly done here unless it's urgent either, but vets do and can make arrangements to send out a member of staff ( a vet nurse say ) on an ambulance run.... depending on how far they have to travel the it can be very expensive but, if you love your pet , this is an option, all you need do is ask them.

Sorry but you are not a vet and you cant know what the lump is unless he pooed very recently (has he pooed recently and regularly til then , how long ago and was it a large or small poo) ?
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Addict
 
Posts: 6730
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby LeyannaVeryll » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:04 am

He pooped today, but again it was just a small white urate with grey-ish runny poo.
But I have good news! I found a vet not very far from me thanks to the local pet store. She has a consultation hour tonight at 18:45 so I'll call her then. Seems sometimes the answers really are in front of you haha :lol: .

And about the size, my beardie is 32cm with tail. He doesn't seem unhappy in it. But I'll consider replacing it. Also, I'm getting rid of the sand. What would be best to use with him as a substrate?
LeyannaVeryll
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:13 am

LeyannaVeryll wrote:He pooped today, but again it was just a small white urate with grey-ish runny poo.
But I have good news! I found a vet not very far from me thanks to the local pet store. She has a consultation hour tonight at 18:45 so I'll call her then. Seems sometimes the answers really are in front of you haha :lol: .

And about the size, my beardie is 32cm with tail. He doesn't seem unhappy in it. But I'll consider replacing it. Also, I'm getting rid of the sand. What would be best to use with him as a substrate?


Good news on vet
and ditching the sand, (NO PARTICULATE beddings PLEASE - loose laid floor tiles, or lino, or kitchen grade absorbant paper toweling are the best options for a bearded dragon).
and beardie will love the extra elbow room to move about.

Hope the vet can help your beardie and the lump is not what I strongly suspect it is :
a serious blockage caused by the ingestion of sand
or
a cancer on / in her stomach / intestines / bowel
or
a seriously nasty abscess

and I hope he comes good with proper treatment and is back to old self quickly.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Addict
 
Posts: 6730
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:11 pm

So .... how is Zippy today ?

What did the vet say the problem was ?
..................and the recommended treatment ?
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Addict
 
Posts: 6730
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby LeyannaVeryll » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:23 am

Zippy is having better day, he's still a bit slow but he roamed his viv a bit and seems a bit more alert.
I've made an appointment with the vet for next wednesday. She said it's sounded like either a treatable impaction or cancer. He's pretty old and we've decided that if he needed surgery, it would be best to put him to rest (I can't afford surgery, but realistcally he's an old stubborn one, and there's a chance he won't survive surgery). I really hope it's treatable, but I'm prepping for the worst. He's on babyfood for the next few days, I'll continue with the baths, and placed a towel in his viv if he needs to rest somewhere soft.

Now all that's left is praying he'll make it...
LeyannaVeryll
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby Drache613 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:17 pm

Hello,

I would highly recommend getting a better UVB light. The compact/coil lights are terrible & offer very little UVB exposure.
An Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb would be fine, to lay across the top of the tank for him. A large reason why dragons begin having issues in the first place is that their systems are not operating optimally.
He hasn't been able to absorb calcium properly for a long time due to no UVB exposure. This makes it very easy for them to become impacted because their GI tract muscles operate from smooth muscle contractions. The GI tract cannot work properly without calcium ions.
As suggested, soft foods only right now since he is likely impacted. As far as the substrate, you can use a colored piece of felt or other fabric, reptile carpet (with small loops so he can't catch his claws easily), non adhesive shelf liner, newspaper, or slate tiles, etc.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 33901
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby LeyannaVeryll » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:00 am

I went to the vet today, and we made a terrible discovery.
Zippy is impacted, yes. But he isn't impacted by the sand.

He's got colon cancer... :cry:

The vet said it could be treatable, but she made it very clear even getting him surgery for it won't ensure for his recovery (he was in pretty bad shape when I got there, even though he was fairly active the day before).

We decided it was best for him to put him down. I didn't want to stress him doing it there so my local vet will do it at home in his viv. Today will be Zippy's last day on this planet.
I feel awful, yet I know it's for the best. I spent 7 good years with the little one. He won't be forgotten.
LeyannaVeryll
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby Terry15 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:13 pm

7 years is a great time with Zippy ! I'm so sorry for your loss.
Terry15
Juvie Poster
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:10 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:29 pm

:( that's terrible news .... poor Zippy.

At least he will be at home with you when goes into that never ending sleep.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Addict
 
Posts: 6730
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby LeyannaVeryll » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:08 am

Thank you all for your help, though. It will help me in the future when I again will be a mother of dragons (hehe).
And thank you for your support. Not many here understand the bond you form with the little ones.

Zippy is now running and chasing his little brother somewhere I hope :) . It's gonna be tough, but I promised myself not to blame myself for this. It just sucks because I keep going with the idea that if I had found a vet sooner, that he could've made it :banghead: . It's so stupid my usual herp vet was on holiday, but I can't blame her for enjoying her free time :lol:

Again, thank you all. :wave:
LeyannaVeryll
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Male bearded dragon is lethargic, weird lump in belly?

Postby Gormagon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:44 am

Awe, I am sorry for your loss, I know it is heartbreaking! He lived a long happy life with you and, you did all you knew how to do so dont blame yourself.
SLAVE TO A KIND BUT, DEMANDING MASTER "PEACHES"
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon?, Ha Ha....guess again..... Like it or not, you are now a slave, lol!
User avatar
Gormagon
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 2088
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:05 pm
Location: Kentucky


Return to Beardie ER

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]