Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

This forum is for urgent health concerns, where your beardie seems very ill and you need immediate help!

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Taterbug » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:00 am

Is your vet a good and trustworthy one? Have you been working with them as you experiment with home remedies? If not perhaps seek a second opinion.

I ask because pain can be very hard to asses in reptiles, pets in general really, and as owners we may not recognize (or want to admit) how much they may be suffering. I am, by no means, recommending you euthanize - I too would want to try everything I could for my pets and I hope you fine a treatment that helps. But keep in mind vets don't want to euthanize pets, however sometimes it is the humane option.
User avatar
Taterbug
BD.org Addict
 
Posts: 5506
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:13 am
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Rankins » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:52 pm

Pain can be a fatal (in humans and reptiles), in reptiles it can cause them to stress to the point of death. So I'm hoping some of the treatments are controlling it to a tolerable level. Glad you were able to find some CBD oil. All forms of the product are legal where I live, its easy to obtain and I know a couple people that have given it to their pets with good results.
I suffer from chronic pain...so sympathize with your dragon. But if you can find a suitable pain management plan the dragon can still have a decent quality of life. If it turns out to be untreatable then other options might need to be explored.
Rankins
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:50 pm

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby 2Pogonas » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 pm

The buprenorphine she is on is working but I don't think medication like this is a good idea long term. My last resort is the CBD oil as it is a more natural way to help the pain. If that doesn't work then I will likely have to euthanize ☹️.
2Pogonas
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Drache613 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:26 pm

Hello,

Reptiles are so hard to read when it comes to pain. I hope that you can find more info about the CBD. Did it come with instructions?
Has her appetite improved any?
It's never easy to have to think about making desions like these. I hope she continues to get better. The pain meds are not designed to be used long term.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 33275
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby 2Pogonas » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:13 pm

There were instructions based on weight and converting it = 0.001ml which is too small to measure. I'll try the smallest lick possible to start and monitor her. I'll continue to look at information available online too😊
2Pogonas
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Drache613 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:36 pm

Hello,

That sounds like a plan, start with the smallest increment & monitor her for any side effects. I highly doubt there will be any though.
How is she doing today?
Keep us posted on her.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 33275
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Rankins » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:24 am

Your plan sounds reasonable and wise. Since there isn't any psychoactive compounds in the pure CBD oil it shouldn't affect behavior much. There isn't much data on toxicity in reptiles but I doubt there will be any problems with its use. I'm hoping it helps, and it should...in mammals it's really effective.
Rankins
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:50 pm

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby 2Pogonas » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:53 am

So far it hasn't seemed to effect behaviour but the tiny dose I've given hasn't seemed to do much, will increase slightly and keep monitoring.
2Pogonas
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Drache613 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:58 pm

Hello,

I am really hoping for an overall effect of the combination. Maybe it will really help with inflammation for her! Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 33275
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby EllenD » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:28 pm

Just to chime in here about pain management, the CBD is a very good idea to try, and if it works as well or better than the Buprenorphine then that's great. But the reason your vet wisely prescribed Buprenorphine is because it is very long acting and has very few side effects in comparison to a short acting opiate like morphine, Dilaudid, fentanyl, etc. It is also much less harmful to his liver and kidneys than the short acting opiates and any nsaids. Rimadyl is a CoxII inhibitor that is often used in veterinary medicine for arthritis, but it can cause lots of issues long term.

So what I'm trying to say to you is that if the Buprenorphine is really helping him, don't be afraid of it, as it is a great long-term pain reliever for chronic pain conditions like arthritis. The reason that Buprenorphine as well as Methadone are used for long-term treatment of opiate addiction are that after the patient reaches a therapeutic dosage and is on a stable dose, meaning their dose is high enough to stop their pain but does not cause any unwanted side effects, basically the patient just simply feels normal with no pain, and they can live a normal life with no outward signs that they are taking any medication daily, and no internal damage is being done to the liver or kidney either. Buprenorphine is a synthetic, partial opiate agonist, not an actual opiate, and is not mixed with any NSAIDS, and it not only binds to pain receptors and blocks pain, but at a low, stable daily dose it is a perfect medication for long-term, severe chronic pain. Usually once chronic pain patients find their stabile, therapeutic, dose they do not have to increase their dosage ever again because tolerance does not develop like it does with opiates. For all of these reasons Buprenorphine as well as Methadone are starting to be prescribed to people with chronic pain conditions, and I suspect (especially with the DEA, FDA, and law enforcement agencies cracking down on doctors who prescribe opiates long-term) that Buprenorphine will become one of the first-line medications prescribed to people as well as pets who need a life-long solution for chronic pain.

I have worked with a lot of people that have found Buprenorphine to be the only long-term, non-harmful to the liver solution for chronic pain in themselves, their children, and in 2 cases in their dogs who suffer from horrible arthritis and who had bleeding issues from Rimadyl use long-term. There is such a horrible stigma on Suboxone (Buprenorphine) and Methadone because they are used to treat opiate addiction, but it was through this use for treatment of opiate addiction that they discovered that these 2 drugs blocked pretty severe pain for a very long period of time once a therapeutic dose was reached. These 2 drugs have a very long half-life, over 24 hours, so if given once daily (sometimes twice daily depending on the dosage amount) they block pain at the same intensity throughout the half-life and do not cause drowsiness, euphoria, or any of the other side effects that come with opiates. The problem is that people are so afraid to use them or to have people find out they are taking them that they never give them a chance. If your beardie is getting relief from the Buprenorphine and is able to function normally, then it's a fantastic alternative, especially when the alternative is euthanasia. Someone made the comment in this thread already of "wow, that's some pretty strong medication your beardie is on", but actually the dose he is on for pain chronic pain control is not that strong at all. This is a common reaction however, whenever Buprenorphine or methadone are mentioned as treatment for pain. You seem leery of giving it to him, which is also a normal reaction, but once people understand that Buprenorphine is actually less dangerous for your beardie long-term than Rimadyl or even Ibuprofen or naproxen is, then they tend to understand why it's the better choice, again especially if the alternative if euthanasia. Your vet is to be commended for prescribing Buprenorphine to your beardie, as not a lot of vets or even human doctors realize how great a choice it is for long-term control of severe, chronic pain...Will he always have to be on it? Yes, but again, what is the alternative?
EllenD
Juvie Poster
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:08 pm
Location: State College, PA

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby 2Pogonas » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:53 pm

Very interesting information, I was not aware of this and yes I was a bit worried about it as everything I had read said it was 30x stronger than morphine. I do think the CBD is helping, but I don't think it helps as much with the nerve pain as the buprenorphine. I will say she has been more alert and lively and trying to climb around more on it than the buprenorphine, where she often just laid around and seemed "stoned," but she twitched less from nerve pain on the buprenorphine. I will try the CBD for another week, and decide on what is best.

Thanks for the advice and information. I would definitely rather have her on meds and happy if they work then euthanize 😊
2Pogonas
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: Severe Arthritis looking for suggestions/help

Postby Drache613 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:27 pm

Hello,

I agree, if she is tolerating it well, then there isn't anything wrong with continuing the pain killer to help. It can help with her quality of life which is all you want for her!
I hope she is feeling better. Please keep us posted on her.


Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 33275
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Previous

Return to Beardie ER

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users