Prophylactic spay procedure

Recently Walter had a few stray scales stuck backwards that irritated ... her... tail whenever they bumped into something. As I examined the scales issue I noticed a lack of the parallel lumps at the base that I had thought were so clearly there before. I then made a vet appointment, as Walter was due for a checkup anyway, and the female gender was confirmed during her health exam.

I had read from some rescue blogs, and the vet mentioned this without me asking, that they like to prophylactically spay females when they can while the dragon is young and healthy to avoid health issues down the line. However I see mixed messaging here and the surgery is insanely expensive as well as invasive - with our vet seeming 2-3x as costly as other rates I have seen at $1100-1700 with the necessary bloodwork. This is not an "if something goes wrong" scale, it was an "if it is 20 minutes it is this rate and 40 minutes is that" rate. And as a long time pet parent to sweet lovies who have indeed had issues - epilepsy and diabetes - I know things can and do go wrong.

We selected this particular vet - our third as we have one for the dogs, one for the horses and one now for Walterina - as one with a great deal of reptile experience in our metropolitan city. I don't base all my life decisions off of what I read online but I am concerned - about the necessity of surgery on an otherwise healthy dragon, the rates being so much higher than other vets and just struggling to make the right choice.

One other thing - he mentioned a number of times that she was healthy and I could breed her - I didn't make the connection until afterwards that he was seeming to push one or the other, but is that a possibility? Does breeding help to avoid reproductive system issues related to the organs that would otherwise have troubles related to being unused? This is not something I had planned to do although I would love to have babies around. It just wasn't something I wanted to do. I had decided I wanted to give Walterina her best life instead of worrying about enclosures and care for all the dragons I may dream of keeping.

So, I try to make wise decisions within my means. First order of business for Walterina's 1st birthday was a lighting upgrade. Check and done! Next order of business was slated to be a nice enclosure upgrade, but an $1100-1700 spay - that I currently cannot afford out of pocket - is looming overhead.

If you have experiences with this situation, or advice, or a SoCal vet you would recommend as a second opinion or a reputable but more affordable spay option, I would love to hear it. Thanks for your time!

It's hard to say. Surgery is very risky on it's own but if eggs erupt it is urgent and can be deadly. I probably wouldn't risk the surgery but would keep a close eye out for odd behavior/lethargy and probably have routine checkups done including ultrasound to make sure everything looks OK.

Hello,

I agree, I don't necessarily feel that a surgery should be performed just to do one. Many females
never have any trouble at all, but some do. If your dragon was laying too many & or having some
trouble with eggs then you can definitely consider the surgery.
I would just keep an eye on her to be sure she doesn't have any trouble. Most of them are just fine
with laying eggs as long as they have access to proper UVB lighting & supplementation.

Tracie

I can't help with your question about breeding because I have no experience, but I had my beardie spayed so I can help there.

My beardie was scheduled for a spay surgery after being diagnosed with follicular stasis, so mine was an emergent surgery rather than elective. With imaging, lab work, the physical surgery, and post-surgical medications/treatments, the whole thing ended up running me about $2000. It's expensive, but my main concern at the time was that it's a major abdominal surgery and anesthesia is always a risk too.

The post-surgical care is definitely something you should consider too. For me, it involved syringe feeding 2-3x a day and antibiotics that I needed to inject into the muscle every 3 days. In the early days after the surgery, I HATED being away from home because I just constantly wanted to monitor her behavior. There's a LOT to consider regarding this procedure, and to be honest I don't think I would have agreed to it if my girl didn't 100% need it at the time.

Good luck to you and Walterina with whatever you choose to do!

Thank you - all of you - for your thoughtful replies.

This is definitely something I will be thinking on for a while, although I feel I am leaning towards very regular vet visits keeping in mind what we need to be looking for, as opposed to invasive surgery before the need arises for such a tiny animal. We already are very in-tune to our animals and notice when their behaviors veer even rather slightly. So, I think with regular care we could probably catch an issue very early, should one occur... and perhaps in the meantime I should open a "may need to spay" savings account. :lol:

@Melissa - Extra thank you for your personal experience and from your signature - condolences on the loss of your Cleo. My rescue setter-spaniel mix passed a couple years ago and she was a Cleo, too. Still miss her! So, as for Walterina, I surely want to do the right thing for her, but from what you have shared with me about what surgery and aftercare is like, I think that may also include not putting her through a major surgery if it isn't necessary. We actually have most of the family working from home nowadays, and we do all have experience giving pet injections and medications (Cleo became diabetic at 10, and we managed that for about 5 years), but all the same it sounds more serious than the cat/dog spays we are so used to.

Much to think on. Thank you again, all. Much appreciated!

I think saving up some money on the side for potential vet expenses is a great idea! I sure wish I did it.

Thank you for the kind words. Cleo was already really sick going into the surgery so unfortunately the intervention was just too late to help. I'm sorry to hear about your Cleo as well, I know how the pain from losing a pet never really goes away!

As for your girl, I'm glad you're so in tune with her health and vigilant with her care! That's the most important thing for her in my opinion

Oh no I didn't know Cleo was one and the same pet who had the spaying surgery. I am so sorry. I definitely need to take your lesson to heart, save up, and also to keep a close eye on Walterina.

Thank you again for sharing. Best wishes.

Hi there, first off I think it's a terrible idea and have rarely heard a vet advocate for it like this. While some dragons DO eventually need emergency surgery there are others that were questionable and some survived, some didn't. Melissa I'm sorry for your loss and I see it happened right after the surgery.

But no, I think this vet may be sincere or may just be out for money. I've had a number of female dragons over the years, never had one become eggbound. Some laid infertile, some mated. All did well . Don't worry about constant vet check ups, they can be like some Dr.s that love to have you coming in + out just to line their pockets and they always seem to find something that " need's " to be done. I'm not saying that your vet is that way but to offer a spay right off the bat seems off to me. BTW, a dragon can still produce eggs after a spay, happened to one member here a few years ago. So I would just bring these things up as a caution, I'd not consider spaying a perfectly healthy dragon. Enjoy your girl and don't be too worried !

BTW, if it's not too much trouble could you post a few pics of Walt with her tail arched up high just to confirm the sex here ?

Yes, with the vet, I am afraid I just don't know his intentions. He is new to me. He gave off a feeling of kindness, but businesses are businesses. I prefer to think the best of people until proven otherwise but that doesn't extend to blindly agreeing to have surgery performed on my tiny pet.

Walterina is our first reptile. All of our local vets are dogs/cats focused and equine-focused so this vet we went to after looking for one who specializes in reptiles is indeed new to us. We did get news back yesterday that they found she has a rather lot of pinworms, as of all the tests they wanted to run, the fecal was the one I felt was most essential. I had declined bloodwork + adeno since she hasn't appeared ill, and has been with us as a solo-reptile for over a year now. It would have cost $500 and I would rather spend that money on her immediate needs, or treatment of known problems than searching when there is no sign of any deeper issue. So, we will be going through course of treatment for the pinworms and I think perhaps this will give us a little more insight to this new clinic, staff and vet. It may be that they are fine and I will just have to keep as knowledgeable as possible on my own to know where I draw the lines and say no. Or I may need to try another reptile vet. We shall see.

Walterina is a very calm and handleable lizard - eeeehxcept when I pull up her tail like this - so I need to wait for a moment later in the day when I can get another person to assist since I won't be able to hold her, her tail and a camera otherwise. Pretty sure she is a girl, but we know how that went when we were pretty sure she was a boy! And happy to accept assistance from more experienced reptile-folks, so I will reply back when I am able to take and upload an image.

Thank you!

Wanted to update, Walterina had a stressful afternoon at the vet's office. My bf took her down to pick up the Pancur medication and the Chlorahexadine cleansing solution. They administered the first dose and showed him the cleansing routine which entails a 5 min undercarriage scrubbing, and of which she was apparently not a fan at all. She displayed the holy trinity of bearding, puffing and hissing. Since she really doesn't like when I lift her tail I am going to give her the night off that she deserves. I will come back and post a shot tomorrow. Thank you!

A 5 minute cleansing of the belly + rectal area ? Oh boy, I'd not be doing that at all. This is totally unnecessary and your poor beardie will soon become the opposite of her calm + friendly self, becoming fearful + easily agitated. No vet I've heard of does such a thing. It's not needed and a deworming should be sufficient. BTW, a low count of pinworms is not a problem so don't be tempted to keep treating her over + over if the first round shows a small amount left. How many days will she be on the meds. ?

I agree with AHBD. This seems a bit much, especially for pinworms. Sanitizing anything that comes in contact with poop is usually enough. Give the underbelly a wipe if needed and maybe a quick spray with some Vetericyn, but even that is a bit excessive.

We just sat out in the sun for a while and when I brought her back inside she was all cosy and comfy so I was able to snap a pic really quickly on my own. She really is a very sweet creature Love the little thing!

Looks like a big girl.

Just saw the last posts about the treatment of the pinworms.

Indeed when he got back I had my misgivings as they charged him $32 for 3oz of chlorahexadine and a tiny sponge, which he didn't know at the time was an astonishingly high markup - you can get a gallon of the stuff for 1/2 to 2/3 that cost. Just an appallingly high markup that is pretty unconscionable. The .5oz of Pancur for $17 was also high. I know businesses need to make money but I was just a little upset, and this makes me look at that $1100-1700 spay price - and surgery in the first place - with an even more skeptical eye.

As for the scrubbing for 5 minutes being too much, I am relieved to consider doing much less. She was very frightened by the experience and while I would do what needed doing, if it needed doing to protect her, I am glad I don't have to give her bad associations with us like that. She very much trusts us, crawls to us when she is afraid, sleeps on us.

I am usually happy with vets but I have had a couple bad misses in the past that led to my spaniel-setter mix having a long standing ear infection issue and her going into ketoacidosis due to a vet pushing a vet brand kibble when I kept telling her my dog was allergic to grains and refusing to help us change her insulin dosage until I went on the kibble she wanted me to use. We used it and it gave her terrible gastric distress. I can still remember the words she spoke to guilt me into doing things her way. And when Cleo went into ketoacidosis, well I never went back, and we quickly got our sweetie back on the right track with a vet who listened to us. Yes, I think I will try another vet out. I have already picked out a couple to consider. Maybe we can do the follow up fecal exam with one of them.

So we have the meds, we have cleanser that we can use more carefully than they suggested. I ordered some stronger cage cleanser, and we are going to temporarily remove some of the extraneous plastic plants, and the extra rocks besides her basking rocks to make keeping the area sanitized very simple. So although the parasite load was said to be high - the vet tech said it was the 4+ out of 1-5 - we should be able to get this back under control as my guess is she has had them all along and only just had a "bloom" recently. She has exhibited no symptoms, no weight loss, no runs, etc.

Oh, one last thing. I had picked up a bottle of Reptaid months ago, thinking it would be good to have on hand, but hadn't used it because with no symptoms we hadn't realized Walter had need for it. Is this something I could give her periodically to avoid this situation in the future? Or do you all recommend any other product? And finally, you mentioned Vetricyn which I have loved for our dogs and horses for eyes and ears and hotspots. (Edit: Think I found the product, which would be needed: "Vetericyn Reptile Antimicrobial Wound and Skin Care Plus"?)

Thank you for your time and advice. It's really so appreciated. I try to be thoughtful, to do research, to make considerate decisions, but it's very easy to be led astray when you know you are new at something and the other person is a professional.