Baby beardie doesn't seem to be healthy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Arnie13

New member
Hi all, I recently purchased a juvenile red phase central bearded dragon from an aquarium/reptile store, and I'm worried that he seems to be underdeveloped in some way? He's only 6 inches long and 10 grams, but the store is adamant that he's between 4-6 months old. Sorry if it's a lengthy post.

He stayed at the store for a little under a month while I got my wildlife license sorted (living in Australia). Since I first saw him, and up to now that I've had him (had him for almost a month), so from August 16th to today, he's stayed the exact same weight and length and hasn't grown a gram, even measured on a small food scale. There was another young bearded dragon in there with him, which was only very slightly bigger. He barely eats, especially for the first week and a bit I had him, where he didn't eat for 3 days straight at a point, and if he did he ate one or two crickets. I had to resort to assist feeding him because he looked so skinny and even lost 1 gram, but I've since stopped since he now won't even let me open his mouth + he passes urate on my hand if I try.
Even today, he barely eats to the point where I've tried offering insects so many times throughout the day but he just doesn't show any interest in them, whether they're crickets, wood roaches, even calci worms. If i'm lucky he eats one or two a day. He passes faeces every day in his bath though, and it looks compact and just the right firmness.

Recently, about 5 days ago, he was in a car ride with us while we went out to buy wood roaches(i've tried feeding them to him in the past). He showed so much interest in them that he even tried to eat them through the plastic box. When we got home he ate 5 at once, 10 in the day total. I was so relieved to see him eating properly, but that lasted a very short time, as he resorted back to eating one or two insects a day. Is there some kind of issue with his terrarium?

It's been such a frustrating and inconsistent time and I'm really confused as to what's going wrong. I'll detail my husbandry below and I'll also provide pictures:

-90cmx45x45 glass terrarium with an exoterra sand mat, it's not loose substrate, it's a rocky texture
-75w basking white light, gives him a basking temperature on the highest at 42 c/ 107 f, on the rocks at 36c/ 96 f, cool end is 25-28 c / 77-82 f
-lights are on for 14 hrs on timer
-i use a reptisun 10.0 T8 uvb lamp, its mounted in this fixture that has a reflector inside, and he gets within 8 inches of it when basking. pics provided below, but could this fixture not be giving a proper gradient because of its square design?
-i give him baths every day, and i give him drops of water on his snout that he does drink up
-greens are provided, but i've never seen him eat them, when i assist fed him i gave him squash
-the rare insects that he does eat are dusted with calcium + d3 powder

It's been such a rough time trying to figure out what it could be. I've taken him to reptile stores seeing the opinions of reptile sellers, and they all say he's healthy looking and that his size is normal for that age? Whenever I read about 4-6 month old beardies anywhere, they're double his size. Could he be a runt of some sort? The other dragon he was with was pretty much the same size.

pics of him and his enclosure:
https://imgur.com/a/SAGbXtB
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Arnie13":2kxp78i0 said:
Hi all, I recently purchased a juvenile red phase central bearded dragon from an aquarium/reptile store, and I'm worried that he seems to be underdeveloped in some way? He's only 6 inches long and 10 grams, but the store is adamant that he's between 4-6 months old. Sorry if it's a lengthy post.

<<< 10g is tiny for a 4 month old, is more like the weight and size of a healthy 4 week old.

He stayed at the store for a little under a month while I got my wildlife license sorted (living in Australia). Since I first saw him, and up to now that I've had him (had him for almost a month), so from August 16th to today, he's stayed the exact same weight and length and hasn't grown a gram, even measured on a small food scale. There was another young bearded dragon in there with him, which was only very slightly bigger. He barely eats, especially for the first week and a bit I had him, where he didn't eat for 3 days straight at a point, and if he did he ate one or two crickets.
<<<< may have been relocation stress .
May also the nasty wintery weather we've had here in NSW and Qld the last couple of weeks .

What size insects have you been buying for him (woodies , crickets) ? I'd be buying 20 day old (or equivalent size) crickets as an example for a 10g hatchling.
He needs to be handfed I think , at least twice per day. (20 x 20day old crickets per day would be good , but you will need to build up to this).

Here is a guide I put together for someone else that you will find helpful :
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=242393

I'd ditch the petshop as your insect source and order in from one of the suppliers listed below :
BSLF :
http://www.biosupplies.net.au/black-soldier-fly-larvae/
http://www.livefoods.com.au/live-insects/calci-worms

Silkworms :
http://www.biosupplies.net.au/silkworms/
http://www.livefoods.com.au/live-insects/Silkworms
http://www.aussiefaunasilkworms.com/
https://everythingsilkworms.com.au/
https://www.peacefulsilkworms.com.au/?page_id=374
I harvest the eggs and "farm" my own silkworms , I have to buy in fresh mulberry leaves (usually from GumTree sellers) in season and out of season when I run out of blanched&frozen leaves I make up worm food from commercial silkworm chow to keep my worms fed. Each female moth can lay 400 eggs. ( I mostly refrigerate my surplus eggs til I need to hatch them).

Crickets :
http://www.biosupplies.net.au/medium-1-25cm-crickets/
http://www.livefoods.com.au/live-insects/crickets/medium-crickets-qty-of-250
https://frogs.org.au/live-foods/product/large-crickets/

Woodies :
http://www.livefoods.com.au/live-insects/wood-cockroaches
https://frogs.org.au/live-foods/product/wood-cockroach/



I had to resort to assist feeding him because he looked so skinny and even lost 1 gram, but I've since stopped since he now won't even let me open his mouth + he passes urate on my hand if I try.

<<< I think you have no choice for now but to handfeed him . I suggest holding back on the veg til later in the day AFTER he's had his 2 or 3 feeds of LIVE insects (given by hand if need be , I think 20 x 20 day old (or equivalent size) crickets per day is a good target for him , but build up to this .
He needs the live insects more than the veg at his age , the proteins are needed to build more beardie and the fats in the live insects are needed to help mobilize the vitamins and minerals in his bloodstream).
Handfeeding see this : viewtopic.php?f=18&t=235583

To get him feeding you may need to give him some VetaFarm CrittaCare Reptile into him, this the kind of kit I use for my sick rescues -
SYRINGE_and_green_feeding_cone_from_Ebay.png

I think since he's feeding as evidenced by his pooing each day he'll likely be eating you out of house and home before long and growing like a weed too !!! ….



Even today, he barely eats to the point where I've tried offering insects so many times throughout the day but he just doesn't show any interest in them, whether they're crickets, wood roaches, even calci worms. If i'm lucky he eats one or two a day. He passes faeces every day in his bath though, and it looks compact and just the right firmness.

Recently, about 5 days ago, he was in a car ride with us while we went out to buy wood roaches(i've tried feeding them to him in the past). He showed so much interest in them that he even tried to eat them through the plastic box. When we got home he ate 5 at once, 10 in the day total. I was so relieved to see him eating properly, but that lasted a very short time, as he resorted back to eating one or two insects a day. Is there some kind of issue with his terrarium?

It's been such a frustrating and inconsistent time and I'm really confused as to what's going wrong. I'll detail my husbandry below and I'll also provide pictures:

-90cmx45x45 glass terrarium with an exoterra sand mat, it's not loose substrate, it's a rocky texture
-75w basking white light, gives him a basking temperature on the highest at 42 c/ 107 f, on the rocks at 36c/ 96 f, cool end is 25-28 c / 77-82 f
<< these are good.

-lights are on for 14 hrs on timer <<<< That's OK …. I'd nudge it up an hour or two
-i use a reptisun 10.0 T8 uvb lamp, <<<< you'd be better off with an Arcadia T5ho 12%UVB tube but you can compensate by moving the basking spot closer to the tube as already outlined.


its mounted in this fixture that has a reflector inside, and he gets within 8 inches of it when basking. pics provided below, but could this fixture not be giving a proper gradient because of its square design? [color=#FF0000[color=#FF0000]]<<< See this for getting right distance for good levels of UV , aim for 200 microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot - viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611

[/color]I think you need the T8 10%UVB tube to be about 4" from the basking spot to get good levels of both UVA & UVB , I think the low levels of UVA are contributing to his low appetite.

-i give him baths every day, and i give him drops of water on his snout that he does [/color]drink up
-greens are provided, but i've never seen him eat them, when i assist fed him i gave him squash
-the rare insects that he does eat are dusted with calcium + d3 powder
<<< I'd hold back on the grated/ finely chopped veg and shredded greens - insects first each day , give veg & greens in the PM , he sounds like he's filling up on veg and not got the space for his insects …. he needs his insects to get the necessary levels of protein & fat (fats are needed to mobilise the vitamins and minerals in his bloodstream).


It's been such a rough time trying to figure out what it could be. I've taken him to reptile stores seeing the opinions of reptile sellers,
<<<< petshops are worthless for advice, fortunate you found this board , there are some very experienced keepers , rescuers and breeders here , even one or two reptile vets who come here
…. nearly always the advice given by petshop sales-staff is very poor ( even here in Australia where (theoretically) they need to know how to care for the reptiles in stock to be authorized to stock live reptiles for sale ).


and they all say he's healthy looking and that his size is normal for that age? Whenever I read about 4-6 month old beardies anywhere, they're double his size.

<<<< at 4 months old he should be about 100g .

Could he be a runt of some sort? The other dragon he was with was pretty much the same size.

pics of him and his enclosure:
https://imgur.com/a/SAGbXtB
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, it's sad to see that even the stores in their native Australia don't seem to always raise healthy dragons. Do they breed dragons in-store ? If so, can a person call to have wildlife experts visit to see what conditions the breeder has [ ie sickly breeder dragons, etc ] Your baby should be eating much, much more and should be much bigger.


Part of the problem may be related to not enough uvb exposure, the 10.0 t8 bulb should be about 7-9" away at the most . Better yet, get the Arcadia bulb that the other poster mentioned.

I would set him up in a much smaller temp. bin, a plastic one like I have in this picture. I'm from the U.S. but I raised beardies for years [ from the egg, large clutches ] and would almost never see a runt like this . So here's how the baby's were set up + thrived :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29889/full

All they need for cage decor is a branch or 2 and a piece of egg crating [ catches the tiny poos nicely + then can be thrown away +replaced ] and the lights set on top of a bit of wire/screen with 1/2 " holes. This way the baby gets plenty of uvb and has a very simple tank for the crucial first couple of months. You can also put the baby directly out in the sun once the temp. is about 70 F. and sunny. That sounds cold but the plastic bin heats up very well so that it's actually almost too hot once the temp. hits 80F outside. Of course you have to be there or have a very secure place where it could not be attacked by roaming animals.
 

Arnie13

New member
Original Poster
Alright guys, I've swapped out the UVB tube for an arcadia and the fixture that comes in their lighting set, he's already acting much better and the bulb is so much brighter and covers a lot more area. He's eating a bit more by himself now, but he's back to letting me assist feed him now too, he gobbles up the food so well.

Him being this size for his presumed age, will he lose the growth he could have had permanently?
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
That's good that he's perked up ! The store obviously does not take proper care of their dragons. They don't really know the age of the dragons either, shouldn't be raising or selling them. If the baby truly is 4-6 months then he may grow but will never be full size, but if the store just made up a random age and the baby is really just 2 months or so then he will have the potential to reach full size. Keep in mind that full size can be much different according to genetics. Anywhere from 17 " [ very small ] to 25"
 

Arnie13

New member
Original Poster
Yeah, I'm going to with a hopeful outlook, because the store definitely does seem incompetent haha. He's such a little cutie and I'm glad he's looking healthier, I want him to have a luxurious beardie life :)

I hope this thread helped any other new owners with similar issues, at least with one thing: don't ask for advice from pet stores or even reptile stores!
 

Arnie13

New member
Original Poster
So I called the store to hassle them a bit and try to get a proper age out of Boss (my beardie), and they got the guy in the store who deals with all of the reptiles (he even has like 10+ reptiles of all kinds himself) to talk to me. Now he clarified that they hatched at the start of the year, making Boss 9 months old?? He was even talking about this specific beardie and his clutch mates. He says that bearded dragons are "like this" and that once he starts feeding more he'll start growing? That they apparently "pause" their growth until they get a lot of food, and that's how it is in the wild apparently... am I being conned somehow here haha it's so confusing. 9 months old and being this size seems to go against every thing I've seen/read, but he's adamant that his beardies (he has 3) grew like that too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Latest resources

Latest profile posts

Day 3 of brumation. It's a struggle. I really miss my little guy. 😔
Mirage entered brumation yesterday, I'm gonna miss hanging out with my little guy.
Getting ready for another day. Feeling sleepy. 😴
I just walked into my room and instead of looking at me, Swordtail's eyes darted directly to the ice cream drumstick I'm holding
Finally replaced Swordtail's substrate

Forum statistics

Threads
156,094
Messages
1,257,682
Members
76,075
Latest member
Meli
Top Bottom