MVB problem? Morbidly obese

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

So I inherited my friend's Beardie over a year ago and at the time she was full grown, morbidly obese, and in a 20ga tank with a incandescent and compact fluorescent. I wanted to give her a better home.

So after research I moved her up to 40ga tank with now just a Mega Ray MVB 100W/120V.
At first I also used an incandescent as well and sometimes a ceramic but since the MVB puts off heat I now just use the MVB. One question is the heat from a MVB enough?

So my dilemma is the basking temps are around 87-75 but in the past when I had them higher like 95-105 she would avoid the light completely. Now at these lower temps she is avoiding the light and likes to hang out under a branch. My thought is maybe she jsut likes it cooler?

My concern is that the MVB is too strong for her. It is about 13" away from her and I know it says minimum 12" away.

There was a time where she was in our bedroom and was more thin and more active and maybe that was because she in front of are lot of more natural light. Now we moved her to behind a wall so she does not see as much light.

Her diet is about 15 crickets a week (I know that's low), lettuce and blueberries.
The vet told me to give her 25mg a day of L carnitine but that is hard to administer so I do not do it.

I'm trying my best so I am sure someone out there can see a flaw in what I am doing, thanks for any help!

Taterbug · Oct 13, 2017

MVB are fine to use but your temps are too low. How are you measuring them? If you find she avoids the high temps the appropriate change is to offer a better gradient, not lower temps. This will require a larger enclosure but a larger enclosure will also allow for more much needed exersize. Think of it kindof like you have the option of a cold room vs an electric blanket on high.... you probably won’t be happy or comfortable with just the two options.

She needs exersize for her weight, a bigger cage with climbing options would be advised. You may need to revise your lighting though. The MVB should be set to achieve the UV exposure and then any additional heat addressed with other lamps. You want the UV exposed area AND the warm area to be at least the size of her head+body. Natural light is very good for them, we can’t quite replicate the way it looks to them in captivity and can shave a very strong effect on mood and activity.

She needs a better diet than lettuce and blueberries. Incluse more dark leafy greens and veggies like squash in what you offer. It won’t help with weight but long term what she is eating now is not adequate.

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

So I have a digital thermo in the lower colder area and then I use a laser themo to get the basking spot.

In terms of getting a bigger cage I don't think that is an option right now. I could have got a 55ga but those are actually more narrow so I thought the 40ga would be better.

Should I add incandescent or a ceramic bulb?

I chose lettuce like green or butter lettuce because she was not liking collard greens.

kingofnobbys · Oct 13, 2017

Please show us photos of your chubby girl , and weight and length nose to tail, length nose to vent.

This is how post images here and elsewhere : viewtopic.php?f=30&t=236881

Guidence on viv size that is suitable for her is here :
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=236462&p=1817571#p1817571

A 40Gal viv is WAY TOO SMALL for an adult beardie dragon.
Most here in Australia house their adult beardies in timber vivs which have solid lids and sliding glass front doors which are 4ft L x 2ft W x 2ft T.
Many build their own or have a handyman friend or cabinet maker build the viv from either plywood or kitchen grade MDF, works out lots cheaper than buying a converted glass fish tank style viv from a petshop.

Proper temperatures (thermal gradient and basking spot) and proper UV (A & B) and UV gradient are mandatory for any bearded dragon.
Guidence on setting your girls viv is here :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050

Comparison of UV sources w and w/out reflector hoods/domes is here :
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611

aim for the following :
>> 180-200 microW UVB / sq.cm @ the basking spot
>> no more than 43 deg C @ the basking spot
>> warm zone in low 30s deg C
>> cool zone in mid-high 20s deg C
>> 80 microW UVB / sq.cm away from the basking spot as per Arcadia guide in my cheatsheet.

Proper diet for an adult bearded dragon is indicated here :
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074

kingofnobbys · Oct 13, 2017

Lowrenz":8luvzqdg said:
So I inherited my friend's Beardie over a year ago and at the time she was full grown, morbidly obese, and in a 20ga tank with a incandescent and compact fluorescent. I wanted to give her a better home.

So after research I moved her up to 40ga tank with now just a Mega Ray MVB 100W/120V.
At first I also used an incandescent as well and sometimes a ceramic but since the MVB puts off heat I now just use the MVB. One question is the heat from a MVB enough?

So my dilemma is the basking temps are around 87-75 but in the past when I had them higher like 95-105 she would avoid the light completely
<<< 105 degF at the basking spot is OK , provided you are absolutely sure of the measured temperature , if the real temperature is higher , she will avoid going there , see this :
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516
Above about 41 degC bearded dragons actively avoid the spot.

. Now at these lower temps she is avoiding the light and likes to hang out under a branch. My thought is maybe she jsut likes it cooler?

My concern is that the MVB is too strong for her. It is about 13" away from her and I know it says minimum 12" away.

There was a time where she was in our bedroom and was more thin and more active and maybe that was because she in front of are lot of more natural light. Now we moved her to behind a wall so she does not see as much light.

Her diet is about 15 crickets a week (I know that's low),
<<< I give my adults 8 crickets + 2 large silkworms EACH every day (I grow my own silkworms).

lettuce
<<<< lettuce has zero nutrition value to a bearded dragon , see this for better greens and veg : http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

and blueberries.
<<< OK for a treat.
The vet told me to give her 25mg a day of L carnitine but that is hard to administer so I do not do it.
<<< why ?
<<< how ?

I'm trying my best so I am sure someone out there can see a flaw in what I am doing, thanks for any help!

AHBD · Oct 13, 2017

Hi there, the reason she's not basking is probably because the temp. is too low and putting her in a brumation mode. MVB's are fine, you probably will see more activity if you just add an extra heat bulb next to the MVB to bump up the temps. in the basking spot to 100-105. Try a 50 watt bulb to bump up the temps. to see if that works. And please do post pics of her + her set up. If she's as obese as you say she will not voluntarily be active. Take her out in a warm room or if it's warm outside to get some exercise.

It's fine to limit the amount of live insects, she needs a reduced protein intake bit still needs some. Two-three bugs a day at most, focus on greens like collard, turnip, mustard, dandelion, green bean, endive and some squash.

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

Thank you for the time and this helpful information, I will be working on these changes

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

The vet told me to give her 25mg a day of L carnitine but that is hard to administer so I do not do it.
<<< why ?
<<< how ?
The vet said the L carnitine would help to remove the fat from her arteries. According to him as organisms that are obese lose weight from dieting they run the risk of clogging up their arteries with fat as it is removed from the body's tissues. He said to give it in a syringe. But that has not really worked with her. its hard to be accurate with the amount.

AHBD · Oct 13, 2017

Is it in liquid or powdered form and is it flavored ? If it's not flavored, find some type of juice or even a dab of raw honey that she likes. Some dragons like bee pollen. Add a bit of something she likes to the L carnitine to see if she'll willingly take it. You can also try home made smoothies made of the greens that I listed in my previous post, and add something that she really likes to it. You might experiment with fruit flavored soy yogurt or some grape, apple or strawberry juice. Just add a few drops to the meds. or the smoothies to see if she'll take it that way. Greens are good for the liver which is negatively affected when a dragon is obese.

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

great info thank you

EsmeraldasMother · Oct 13, 2017

Also, if you're giving it orally, this way is EXTREMELY easy. It was recommended to me by EllenD, and I highly recommend doing it this way. I've tried several different ways of getting my baby to open his mouth for medication, or fluids, and this is by far the easiest.

"push up his upper lip on the side of his mouth, back near his ear, at the very end of his mouth. Have your thumb on the plunger and be ready to slowly push the medicine into his mouth...once you have the tip of the syringe under his upper lip on the side of his mouth/face, gently just slide the tip of the syringe up his mouth, keeping it under his upper lip the entire time, towards the front of his mouth in the middle of his face. For whatever reason, when the tip of the syringe reaches the middle of his mouth under the tip of his snout, he will pretty much automatically open his mouth up wide".

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

Thank you kingofnobbys this is a very good detailed amount of knowledge. I will get started on a viv soon. I enjoy that work and have a friend who is even handier than I am. Thank you everyone for the assistance

Lowrenz · Oct 13, 2017

So from nose to vent is 8" and nose to tail is 18" I do not have the ability to weigh her currently but I recall vet saying she was over 500grams.

Savora · Oct 13, 2017

Hmm, my little girl is 19 inches and is 524 grams. That seems to be a healthy weight to me!

AHBD · Oct 13, 2017

I wouldn't say morbidly obese but def. quite overweight, enough to affect her health + need attention.

MVB problem? Morbidly obese

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