Do reptiles REALLY absorb water through the cloaca ?

Just thought I'd put this link here , an article from Reptiles magazine that debunks the theory of reptiles taking water in through their cloaca.:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwjTy42WwNHKAhVLNz4KHVHlB0gQFgg1MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reptilesmagazine.com%2FReptile-Health%2FThe-Vet-Report-Fluid-Therapy-in-Reptiles%2F&usg=AFQjCNH6z6ZX4dI9ILqzaQ6OA-ALoTaoIA&sig2=rFuoS6UcsD0v5_63o0Oj5w

It's good to try to get this myth dispelled to ensure that people are properly hydrating their dragons through fresh food and water via their mouth. Thanks for posting the article =)

Amazing how many vets here , and supposedly "expert" beardie keepers and breeders still pump out the "give the dragon a soak if it's dehydrated" , "use energy drinks as the bathing solution", and similar rubbish.

Bump.

Although I feel that giving beardies oral fluids is extremely important and necessary, regardless of what that one article states, I still feel that bath water does help hydrate them. Even when my female beardie doesn't drink from her bath water most of the time, I have watched the fat stores on the top of her head get fuller while she is bathing many times. It also gives her more energy and she enjoys it.

I will continue to recommend oral fluids as well as bathing and even using the homemade Pedialyte soak as I feel it is very beneficial. Baths also help loosen unshed skin that is very dry and makes them more comfortable.

If a beardie hates baths, then that is a different story.

kingofnobbys":20gq184k said:

Amazing how many vets here , and supposedly "expert" beardie keepers and breeders still pump out the "give the dragon a soak if it's dehydrated" , "use energy drinks as the bathing solution", and similar rubbish.

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Bathe them in energy drinks?? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, I was questioning that, too. There is a home made pedialyte recipe that works and I'll give it to anyone who needs it. Just ask.

As for baths. I tried that route, just getting them to drink water but I had 2 dragons that couldn't drink water, they'd choke on it, as they'd store it in their beards and then try to drink it from there later. What it did was stop them from breathing as they'd inhale it instead. And then it was CPR time to get them to start breathing again. So I had to give them baths every 2 days to make sure they were hydrated and it worked. So I'm all for giving beardies water, but baths work just as well. I bathe all of mine, even though they get water with bee pollen in it, too, daily. My 6 mo old dragon Imp doesn't like to drink much water, so he gets a bath daily because his lights are hotter than my adults. Whatever works is fine but I go by both.

I do not bath my adult dragons daily (only the babies), I do however give them 30 minute baths about once per week. The other posters suggestions about water is great, but as my two will not drink any water I give them a bath weekly. Sometimes they may (rarely) stick their heads in to drink, but mostly they absorb through their vents.

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Sorry, but this is an absolute myth. There is no evidence to support the notion bearded dragons absorbing moisture through their cloacas.

I disagree about it being a myth. My dragon has never has a drink of water through his mouth in his life, but gets daily baths and is super hydrated. How else would he get the water into his body?

How do you know he is super hydrated, what is your measure of that?

It will get moisture from food. Whether it is enough is another matter.

Try and find a scientific paper proving that dragons absorb water through their cloacas. What controls this phenomenon? What stops them inflating like balloons until they burst? Why would an animal from an environment with little standing water evolve this technique of water absorption? Do you absorb water when you have a bath?

I promise i'm not trying to be unpleasant or provoke an argument for the sake of it, but i feel strongly on this. I don't think people should rely on hear say with lizard care. It perpetuates myths and sub-standard care.

Food

Dragons, do get some water from their vent/cloaca. It may be a minimal amount compared to drinking, and ingesting through food/veggies, but there is some benefit.

Although I cannot find the specific article, a study out of Australia reported that dragons in the wild will dig out holes that are moist in order to obtain some water through their vents during brumation.

Countless bearded dragon breeders, have been known to suggest giving a bearded dragon who is dehydrated soaks in water, or water/pedialyte to help increase hydration.Veterinarian still suggest the same.

I am not suggesting that soaking should be the only choice of hydration. I do believe it is helpful, and I do believe they can get some (passive) hydration this way.

However, if given a bowl, my dragons never drink, if misted, my dragons never drink. I have given them water by syringe once in a while, soaked them, or they have got plenty of hydration through veggies and other food sources.

Oh and not to start an argument, but I am a very well informed bearded dragon owner, who continues to look and receive new and important information on bearded dragon husbandry and care.

Well you can tell a lot about your beardies hydration through their poop and urates. Before, when I gave baths minimally, his poops would be nicely formed and urates would be intact and pretty large compared to the poop. Now that I give baths almost everyday (which he thoroughly enjoys) his poops I noticed come out quicker and easier with nice form but still a little moist. Urates are also noticeably smaller. Hydration levels can also be checked by looking at the bottom eyelids. A thoroughly hydrated dragon should have nice and bright bottom eyelids. A less hydrated one will have slightly grey tinted bottom eyelids and a dehydrated one will have what looks like bags under their eyes. eyes will also droop significantly when dehydrated. This method isn't as reliable as the poop since there could be many other cause to dark or droopy eyelids but it's also a sign of dehydration. I'm not an expert by any means and am still learning new things about dragons every day through research and many forums including this one. I was given most of this information by a very experienced and trustworthy reptile enthusiast/vet.

I ALSO agree that baths help with hydration and will continue to recommend them. I have seen proof that the fat stores on top of their heads fill up when they are bathing even though they haven't had a drink of their bath water. I also notice a difference in their urates and feces as well as the hydration of the skin. Their eyes do look brighter as well as the skin around them. I have had beardies for many, many years, raised from little babies and have always given them baths that they all really enjoyed. It also helps hydrate the skin when they are shedding and you can see the hydration when using the "pinch" method. It can take some beardies a little time to relax during a bath but there are some things that will make it more enjoyable like putting a cloth down in the bottom of the transparent container or sink to help them have something to grab onto so that they feel more secure. Encouraging them to swim is also great exercise for them and can help strengthen their legs. If a bath really stresses out the dragon, then it's best to limit them to once a week but continuing to offer oral fluids is a good idea.

Oral fluids are also very helpful and should certainly be encouraged by using a plastic medicine dropper or needleles syringe. None of my beardies ever liked being misted although some enjoy it and will willingly lick off the drops of water.

We can agree to disagree but please don't say

this is an absolute myth. There is no evidence to support the notion bearded dragons absorbing moisture through their cloacas.

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I have heard there is proof and have read about it too over the years. Have only seen ONE article that really didn't say NOT to bathe or that it doesn't work. It simply says that it may not be enough, that's all and here's the quote from his article.

I have seen no proof that herps in general are able to absorb enough water through their cloacas to replace fluid deficits.

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There is a longstanding member on this forum that knows Dr. Mader (the vet that wrote the article I read) that has met him and did not care for his opinions on things at all and how he does things at his practice.

We can agree to disagree but please don't say

this is an absolute myth. There is no evidence to support the notion bearded dragons absorbing moisture through their cloacas.

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Why shouldn't i say that? it's an accurate statement. There is no evidence or none that i have ever seen or many other hobbyists who share this view. If you do have a scientific study that suggest otherwise please share, as i would be keen to read it and will happily adjust my opinions accordingly.

I have heard there is proof and have read about it too over the years. Have only seen ONE article that really didn't say NOT to bathe or that it doesn't work. It simply says that it may not be enough, that's all and here's the quote from his article.

I have seen no proof that herps in general are able to absorb enough water through their cloacas to replace fluid deficits.

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There is a longstanding member on this forum that knows Dr. Mader (the vet that wrote the article I read) that has met him and did not care for his opinions on things at all and how he does things at his practice.

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Who was this person and what are their scientific credentials? Dr Mader is a respected scientist in the field and reptile veterinarian - that of course does not mean he is incapable of being wrong - but i find his view persuasive and he has gone as far as to reference a study he oversaw that suggested in tortoises at least, that this does not happen. What makes you think he is so wrong?

Again all he is saying is there is no evidence - yet it is being stated as fact here. Forgive me if i don't find ad hoc observations as being as persuasive. Given how often it's suggested, don't you find it odd there are no studies proving it?

Why would a land animal with a mouth develop a technique of absorbing water up it's cloaca? Have you ever seen a hydrating lizard stick it's self vent first into a body of water?

Although I cannot find the specific article, a study out of Australia reported that dragons in the wild will dig out holes that are moist in order to obtain some water through their vents during brumation.

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Any clues on this study as it would be fascinating to read? I do believe lizards will burrow into more humid environments to control hydration, there is a lot of evidence that this is crucial for monitor lizards, however the more plausible suggestion is this is done through the oral membrane. In this example the vent isn't even submerged.

I think it's also worth taking into account that removing an animal from it's environment into one where it can't thermoregulate and that fluctuates wildly in temperature doesn't seem wise. Nor does it that in many lizards bathing seems to force involuntary defecation, rather than allowing them to do so when they are ready.

Again, i'm just trying to get this subject debated as it is oft repeated with little regard for the evidence or possible negatives.