Calcium with D3 causes Hypervitaminosis D?

Bihelical · Jun 27, 2013

I have heard for the first time about this potential issue while posting and reading threads over at the bearded dragon subreddit.

All I have ever heard said that you should use calcium with D3. The reasoning being that even when using proper UVB bulbs, the light does not simulate sunlight well enough and extra supplementation is required to meet the dragons needs so they can properly utilize dietary calcium.

Now I am hearing that proper UVB is sufficient for them to synthesize vitamin D in their skin naturally and adding D3 into their diet puts them at risk for hypervitaminosis D which can lead to hypercalcemia and calcification of soft tissues (such as kidney). These are serious medical conditions and I certainly want to make sure nothing like this happens to my dragons.

Searching on the internet reveals arguments for both the use and disuse of D3 calcium supplements, and honestly I am feeling a bit confused over which is the best way for my dragons health. I use reptisun 10.0 tube bulbs, both of which are less than 3 months old right now (will be replaced at 6 months of use) and I have always used a calcium supplement with D3 for both my young dragon (at a bit over 8 months) and my elderly dragon.

I appreciate any advice and info.

Gail · Jun 27, 2013

General thought is if you use a tubular UVB, then use calcium with D3 but if you use a MVB then no D3 is needed.

Claudiusx · Jun 27, 2013

The amount of D3 in the calcium supplements we use is so miniscule that you would first have to overdose your dragon 10 times over on calcium before you saw hypervitaminosis D.

Point being, you are not going to overdose your dragon on D3 unless you are trying to. And even then, it will be difficult.

The D3 scare got blown way out of proportion a year or two ago, and it's still a big misconception.

-Brandon

saiyan25 · Jun 27, 2013

I actually did some literature search on this topic, to see if any universities have done research on this. The D3 production from UVB is about 8 times higher than from supplementation alone. So I agree with Brandon, you can't overdose them from standard supplementation method.

Bihelical · Jun 28, 2013

saiyan25":1uji8nav said:
I actually did some literature search on this topic, to see if any universities have done research on this. The D3 production from UVB is about 8 times higher than from supplementation alone. So I agree with Brandon, you can't overdose them from standard supplementation method.

That's pretty neat, any chance you still have the link/source on that?

Also, thank you everybody for your answers, it helps a lot.

saiyan25 · Jun 28, 2013

Bihelical":2o26y71g said:
saiyan25":2o26y71g said:

I actually did some literature search on this topic, to see if any universities have done research on this. The D3 production from UVB is about 8 times higher than from supplementation alone. So I agree with Brandon, you can't overdose them from standard supplementation method.

Click to expand...

That's pretty neat, any chance you still have the link/source on that?

Also, thank you everybody for your answers, it helps a lot.

I can put up the links, but not upload the full paper for copyright reasons. The abstract should tell you the most important results though. I said '8 times' in my previous post on top of my head, but it's actually between 5-18 times. Sorry about the mistake/confusion.

D.G.A.B. Oonincx, Y. Stevens, J.J.G.C. van den Borne, J.P.T.M. van Leeuwen, W.H. Hendriks, Effects of vitamin D3 supplementation and UVb exposure on the growth and plasma concentration of vitamin D3 metabolites in juvenile bearded dragons (Pogona vitticeps), Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part B: Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Volume 156, Issue 2, June 2010, Pages 122-128, ISSN 1096-4959, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cbpb.2010.02.008.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1096495910000540

Other papers that I thought were interesting:

D.G.A.B. Oonincx, M.D. van de Wal, G. Bosch, J.B.G. Stumpel, A.C. Heijboer, J.P.T.M. van Leeuwen, W.H. Hendriks, M. Kik, Blood vitamin D3 metabolite concentrations of adult female bearded dragons (Pogona vitticeps) remain stable after ceasing UVb exposure, Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part B: Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Volume 165, Issue 3, July 2013, Pages 196-200, ISSN 1096-4959, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cbpb.2013.04.006.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1096495913000754

Journal of Animal and Veterinary Advances
Year: 2011 | Volume: 10 | Issue: 2 | Page No.: 229-234
DOI: 10.3923/javaa.2011.229.234
Serum Vitamin D Levels and Skeletal and General Development of Young Bearded Dragon Lizards (Pogona vitticeps), under Different Conditions of UV-B Radiation Exposure
K.R. Kroenlein, K.L. Zimmerman, G. Saunders and S.D. Holladay
http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=javaa.2011.229.234

Kevin Wright, Two Common Disorders of Captive Bearded Dragons (Pogona vitticeps): Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism and Constipation, Journal of Exotic Pet Medicine, Volume 17, Issue 4, October 2008, Pages 267-272, ISSN 1557-5063, http://dx.doi.org/10.1053/j.jepm.2008.07.004.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1557506308001237

These papers are relatively new, and some of them are a little bit counter intuitive, maybe even controversial to some of the forum members. Maybe I should start a new thread to discuss these papers. Anyway, I hope this helped.

Bihelical · Jun 28, 2013

saiyan25":1vcurjuy said:
Bihelical":1vcurjuy said:

saiyan25":1vcurjuy said:

I actually did some literature search on this topic, to see if any universities have done research on this. The D3 production from UVB is about 8 times higher than from supplementation alone. So I agree with Brandon, you can't overdose them from standard supplementation method.

Click to expand...

That's pretty neat, any chance you still have the link/source on that?

Also, thank you everybody for your answers, it helps a lot.

Click to expand...

I can put up the links, but not upload the full paper for copyright reasons. The abstract should tell you the most important results though. I said '8 times' in my previous post on top of my head, but it's actually between 5-18 times. Sorry about the mistake/confusion.

D.G.A.B. Oonincx, Y. Stevens, J.J.G.C. van den Borne, J.P.T.M. van Leeuwen, W.H. Hendriks, Effects of vitamin D3 supplementation and UVb exposure on the growth and plasma concentration of vitamin D3 metabolites in juvenile bearded dragons (Pogona vitticeps), Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part B: Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Volume 156, Issue 2, June 2010, Pages 122-128, ISSN 1096-4959, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cbpb.2010.02.008.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1096495910000540

Other papers that I thought were interesting:

D.G.A.B. Oonincx, M.D. van de Wal, G. Bosch, J.B.G. Stumpel, A.C. Heijboer, J.P.T.M. van Leeuwen, W.H. Hendriks, M. Kik, Blood vitamin D3 metabolite concentrations of adult female bearded dragons (Pogona vitticeps) remain stable after ceasing UVb exposure, Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part B: Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Volume 165, Issue 3, July 2013, Pages 196-200, ISSN 1096-4959, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cbpb.2013.04.006.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1096495913000754

Journal of Animal and Veterinary Advances
Year: 2011 | Volume: 10 | Issue: 2 | Page No.: 229-234
DOI: 10.3923/javaa.2011.229.234
Serum Vitamin D Levels and Skeletal and General Development of Young Bearded Dragon Lizards (Pogona vitticeps), under Different Conditions of UV-B Radiation Exposure
K.R. Kroenlein, K.L. Zimmerman, G. Saunders and S.D. Holladay
http://www.medwelljournals.com/fulltext/?doi=javaa.2011.229.234

Kevin Wright, Two Common Disorders of Captive Bearded Dragons (Pogona vitticeps): Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism and Constipation, Journal of Exotic Pet Medicine, Volume 17, Issue 4, October 2008, Pages 267-272, ISSN 1557-5063, http://dx.doi.org/10.1053/j.jepm.2008.07.004.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1557506308001237

These papers are relatively new, and some of them are a little bit counter intuitive, maybe even controversial to some of the forum members. Maybe I should start a new thread to discuss these papers. Anyway, I hope this helped.

That is awesome, I really appreciate the links! I have been on somewhat of a curiousity driven quest to learn more about bearded dragons. Anything on their behaviour and ecology, taxonomy, health and anatomy is something I am super interested to read about. Especially sources that come out of peer reviewed journals.

Anyways, thanks again for all your help and for those links, I have little bit of reading to do now

.

Drache613 · Jun 28, 2013

Hello,

The only way really that you can overuse D3 is by way of injections or straight oral D3 liquid. It needs to be dosed & measured in IU's so it can be overdosed relatively easily in this form.
The powder form is not absorbed as well so you can get by with using it more.
The most important factor though is exposure to good quality UVB lighting, placed correctly in the tank with good overall brightness for basking.

It sounds like your regime is just fine though & you have a nice UVB light also.

Tracie

Calcium with D3 causes Hypervitaminosis D?

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