Underweight/Undersized Beardie

Hey there,

I'm really beginning to think that my Beardie is underweight and undersized. I haven't been able to get an actual head to tail measurement on him since he's pretty skittish. He just seems pretty thin compared to other pictures of year old beardies.

This is my first time raising a Beardie (or pet of any kind) and I relied a lot on information from some of my friends at my college on how to properly handle it. Unfortunately I graduated when my lizard was still fairly young and so I think I might still be feeding/treating him as a youngin' rather than an adult. He's about a year and a half old now.

His feeding regimen right now consists of a daily mix (a small handful) of collard greens, carrots, and some fruits. I recently bought him some superworms, which he has been gobbling up. Previously, I had been feeding him crickets...but only about 3-5 per feeding time. I had heard from someone that its not good to overfeed crickets, and I think I have been *extremely* conservative with those....and I'm feeling like I should definitely be giving him more than that :? As far as the superworms go, I've only been giving him 1-2 per day with his salad mix because I also heard they can harm beardies if fed too many (something about the anatomy of their head parts).

I also think a reason my Beardie might not be eating as much as he should deals with my tank temperature. I only have a digital thermometer on the warm side of the tank towards the top of the glass, which pretty consistently reads 85 deg, dropping to about 75 degrees overnight without the light on. He has a MVB bulb right now for a 40 gal tank, but I'm seriously considering switching to a ReptiSun 10.0 or another tube light system to give him more heat and UVA. Especially after coming home from work yesterday and seeing him laying splayed out in the sand on the warm side of the tank (a sign that he isn't getting enough heat).

I'm really concerned and looking for advice on feeding quantities and recommendations for new heating systems.

Is it possible to get him back to a healthy weight/size even though he already seems behind?

Thanks for your help. You guys are so great.

A picture would really help but it does sound like he probably underfed. Did you only feed him a few crickets a day when he was a baby? When they are growing, they should pretty much get all the cricket they want daily.
Super worms are a good staple for a adult dragon, their head poses no problem. Normally a adult only needs 5 or so a day but your guy can have more, maybe 10.
As far as a salad goes, is he eating all that you offer now? If he is then let him have more, they can't eat too much salad. I'd also recommend a better mix of greens, carrots are ok for a treat but they are high in Vit A and shouldn't be given daily, fruit is also for treats as they are high in sugar. Here is a list of good greens/veggies. http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

Ok, on to temps. First off, you need a good digital thermometer with a probe, the probe needs to be laid directly on the basking area so you know the temp in the hottest area. You can get one from walmart for just a few dollars. You want the basking area to be 100-105 degrees for a adult, the cool end of the tank should be around 85 degrees.

MVB are supposed to be the best but I prefer to use a repti sun 10 and a separate heat lamp, that way I can easier control the heat and not have to worry about the UVB. If you do go with the repti sun, make sure you use a long tube and not one of the compact or coil bulbs. I mounted the UVB inside the tank so there is no screen between the bulb and dragon.

You said the dragon splays out in the sand, what kind of sand do you use? The kind that is sold for reptile use is actually very unsafe for dragons, most people here use ceramic tiles or some other sort of solid cage flooring. I use tiles myself, they are easy to clean, look nice and help keep nails filed down. What are you using for a basking platform? I use a big flat rock normally but right now I have a baby so I am using a large red patio brick.

Oh, almost forgot, do you bathe your dragon? Not only does it help keep them clean but they will often drink while in the tub and many will poo in the water and that helps to keep the cage clean
To bathe a dragon, fill the tub with about 1" of warm (not hot) water and let the dragon soak for a few minutes. You want the water to come up to his shoulders, any deeper and they might start floating/slipping around.

Most experienced beardie owners on here will tell you to feed your beardie as many live feeders as they care to eat in a 10-15 minute. Basically as much as they want (of an acceptable staple food). Babies and juvies can easily consume 50-75 (or more) appropriate sized crickets a day. As they get older most will usually slow down on their own. I believe that even as adults they should be allowed as much as they want. My beardie, Izzy, naturally decreased the amount he was eating beginning at around 9-10 months old. He will still eat veggies (collard, mustard, turnip greens & squash, etc) in the mornings and on average 5-10 superworms a day (some days he only eats 2-3, other days he will eat 7-9). Superworms are fine as a staple, but will pack the pounds on. Izzy likes them much better than crix and roaches, but when he started getting too fat, I switched back to crix for a little while. He was not happy about that! :evil: Supers would be great if your guy needs to put on weight. Izzy is now just over a year old. He is 20" long. I have not weighed him for awhile, but he is quite hefty! :wink:

I find it surprising that your temps are not higher with an MVB in a 40 gallon tank. Your warm side temp should definately be higher than 85. Should be closer to 95. Basking temp should be 100-105 for an adult. And your cool side should be around 80. What kind of MVB are you using? And how old is it? How close can he get to it? I have the T-Rex MVB and a 40 gallon breeder tank. My temps are what I listed above. I even had to raise my T-Rex to 14" inches above the basking spot (rather than the minimum of 12") because those temps had been running 114.

The reptisun 10.0 tube is a great source of UVB, but the main advantage of an MVB is that it provides both UV and heat in one bulb. The reptisun10.0 tube provides UV only. You will have to use another bulb(s) for a heat source. Hope this info helps.

Edit: Oh...It looks like Waldo and I posted at the same time. So there you go! Lots of info.

Thanks for the help guys. Here are some answers to your questions:

As far as the lighting and heat situation goes, I have a really, really ghetto setup going on right now. I'm using a tank that has a closed lid on it, so I can't clamp the light onto the side. And I also can't directly place the bulb and surrounding metal holder(is that what its called?) directly on top of the lid because the bulb extends beyond the depth of the holder. So instead, I have the light clamped onto a bottle (to give it enough height) which is angled into the cage on the warm side. I don't know if you can really call it basking or not, but the only way that I found it was possible to get him close to the lamp is using a branch, which is probably about 10" or so from the bulb. Unfortunately the bulb is getting old...its over a year old. I don't remember exactly the brand/make of the bulb...my friends just recommended it to me, but it cost approx. $45, if that helps?

Regarding substrate, I'm using the Repile Vita-Sand stuff that I purchased from a Reptile Show. I didn't use the sand when my beardie was very young...I used reptile carpet. When I got him a 40 gallon tank, I switched over to sand.

I haven't bathed my lizard in an awfully long time, mainly because of how skittish he is...I'm afraid to take him out of the tank for fear of his running and hating me even more Unfortunately, it seems his behavior is an unfortunate consequence of all these other problems I'm seeming to have with how I've been caring for him.

I want to get these problems resolved ASAP, and I'm wondering if I should try to get another of those all-in-one bulbs and maybe find a deeper bulb holder? It would be really nice to just be able to put the lamp directly on the lid. Heating and Lighting is so tricky!

If you want to keep using sand, I recommend washed playsand made for childrens sandboxes. Vita sand and calci sand is like clumping cat litter, get it wet and it forms a hard lump. You can find playsand at Home Depot.

The bulbs you use really is personal preference, if you want to use a MVB then you can find a bigger dome at most pet stores or go to a hardware store and ask for a chicken heat dome, they are really deep. It also shouldn't hurt if the dome you have now lays on the screen lid at a angle. Most MVB should be replaced once a year, tubes every 6 months. Not all of the MVB bulbs are good, I'm not sure what brand is recommended since I don't use that kind.

Heating and lighting really isn't that complicated, its just a matter of spending the $$ to get the right stuff.

Forgot something
Letting him run around won't make him more afraid of you, most dragons love to come out of their cages and once he learns you are doing something fun with him, he should settle down some. You can also make a safe room for him to run in, a bathroom or bedroom works well for this. Cover places he could hide in, a small hand towel works great to stuff under dressers and doors, keep closets closed as well as any boxes or other small dark areas. Let him run until he he is tired, then pick him up, wrap him in a towel like a burrito and hold him for a bit.
The only way to tame him is to hold him a lot, don't worry about him not liking it, he will eventually.

If you decide to use an MVB, the best are the MegaRay and the T-Rex ActiveUV. Please avoid the PowerSun. There have been some problems with a recent batch. Here are some links:

Megaray - http://reptileuv.com/megaray-sb-100-watt-self-ballasted-flood-uvb-lamp.php
T-Rex - http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?ref=7&products_id=435&affiliate_banner_id=1

But look around online, I'm pretty sure I found my T-Rex cheaper than that. I just don't remember where. Maybe reptiledepot.com? Try them.

You mentioned that you had your current MVB angled? It is NOT recommended to angle an MVB. It will shorten their lifespan or cause them to burn out faster.

You're right, heating and lighting can get very confusing. Let us know if you have any more questions. By the way, It usually is harder to find the correct UV tube or MVB in stores, or at least in my area it is. So, you may have order to order them online.

Great, thanks for the help!

Regarding how much food I'm giving him, should I start on an "eat-as-much-as-he-can" in 10-15 min "diet" to try and bulk him up some? I have superworms right now, but its hard to give those a bunch at a time, since they will burrow in the sand (another reason to switch to something like tile...which btw do you have to have those cut to fit your tank?). I'm going to try and start giving him more food though. Sounds like he could use it...and it sure wouldn't hurt.

I'm going to post some pictures later this afternoon of both my lizard and the tank in its current state so you can see what I'm talking about. Maybe you could get back to me after you see some pictures too?

I really appreciate the help, and I'm sure little Amerigo does too!

You could go ahead with a "eat all you want" meal once a day plus a nice salad. Supers should be quite easy to feed, try to find a small bowl with straight sides so they worms can't crawl out or feed by hand, I find the bowls I use at the dollar store.
Your dragon will bulk up, maybe even grown longer but I doubt he will get really big since he has been stunted.

Can't wait to see the pics

Here are some pictures of Amerigo. I just recently bought a deeper lamp so it can sit directly on top of the tank, but I really want to replace the bulb. I think I am going to go get a temperature gun today, so I can test the temperature of the branch where he sits. The tank temperature is reading 82 degrees, but I want a temp gun so I can actually test certain spots.






A little concerned about this one....is the tip of his nose bruised from window dancing or something? It's been brownish-red for about a week or so now...


Gaping after eating a few superworms. Is that okay?


Here you can get an idea of how close his branch is to the light source.


And here's the tank setup. From left to right: hammock, water dish and log, food dish, shirt, and branch w/ Amerigo!

Let me know what you think?

He looks better then I was expecting, so does the cage
A temp gun is a good idea, its important to know what the exact temps of the basking spot is. Him gaping like that is a way to regulate his internal temperature and has nothing to do with his eat worms, its normal and nothing to worry about. Keep feeding him lots and he should plump up in just a few weeks, dragons seem to gain weight pretty fast if they are healthy.

You are right about replacing the light, if its been a year since you have then its time. If you decide to go with a MVB (the all in one bulb) I would still recommend putting some type of bright light over the cool end of the tank, it seems kinda dark in there and dragons like it bright. You can use a cheap fluorescent tube from walmart for that.

The dark spot on his nose may be a bruise, do you ever feed reddish fruit like raspberries? Sometimes dragons are messy eaters. I'd recommend a bath to see if it washes off. If it is a bruise from glass dancing, I'm not sure what to do to prevent it, maybe if you let him run when he is glass dancing, it will help.

Here is my viv. This is a old picture with my first dragon, the furnishings are a bit different now but you can see how bright it is.

Ahh sounds good. Yeah I'm going to try bathing him later tonight. The red on the front of his face could definitely be the few strawberry pieces I was giving him earlier this week. :lol:

Yeah I was thinking that end of the tank is a bit dark too. I just ordered a new MVB bulb, so maybe I should grab a fluorescent tube light or something for the other end of the tank? I still have that old lamp "shade" that I could use if I just get another fluorescent light to put in it. I should get one that doesn't emit a lot of heat...right? Is there a certain kind of light that is good for that?

Thanks so much for all the help. I'm glad Amerigo isn't looking as bad as I might have made it seem. I had him out of the tank today and he was walking around a little bit and got tired and just sat on a pile of my clothes for a while

I will keep you guys posted! Thanks again!

You can just use a cheap fluorescent from a hardware store. If you want to use a long tube, you should be able to find a under cabinet fixture with bulb included for fairly cheap. For bright lighting, you won't need a special bulb. I'm not sure if you can find any kind of non heat emitting bulb that will fit in your old dome, best to ask a hardware store employee for help on that.

Good that you let him out to run around, it will help build up his muscles.