ADV or Metabolic Bone Disease or Injury

Hi,

I recently went to the vet with my bearded dragon because he was walking on his ankles - on his front legs - and his back legs seemed kind of weak. They told me he has a neurological parasite without running any tests or bloodwork, and I think that's crazy. Furthermore, I looked up causes of neurological issues in bearded dragons, and neurological parasites aren't even a common or researched cause.

Other than his strange little habits like walking on his ankles or sleeping with his legs tucked under his body, he is so healthy. He has grown faster than any other dragon I've ever owned. He's over 90 g at 3 months.

He's still very energetic and tries very hard to run around and jumps around every time I hold him, but he has some trouble walking.

I took him to a different vet for a second opinion, and she said the causes of his walking issues could range anywhere from MDB to other deficiencies to ADV to an injury.

I was just wondering what people on here thought.

**I'd like to add he is a rescue, and I got him in very bad condition when I first got him.

My best guess would be it is a result of the poor care he received and MBD. Sounds just like my boy who also was rescued from very bad care. He has some MBD and deformities from it. He had a lot of weakness in his hind end when I first rescued him but it has drastically improved with good care and exercise!

I wouldn't use that first vet again. The second one sounds decent though.

Pastella":2fmfqmy0 said:

My best guess would be it is a result of the poor care he received and MBD. Sounds just like my boy who also was rescued from very bad care. He has some MBD and deformities from it. He had a lot of weakness in his hind end when I first rescued him but it has drastically improved with good care and exercise!

I wouldn't use that first vet again. The second one sounds decent though.

Click to expand...

Thank you Pastella,

After everything I've seen and read, my gut instinct was MBD, as well. The first vet gave me some weird response like "the bones aren't rigid enough" or something like that. But I would imagine that in the earlier stages of MBD they aren't rigid

Hello,

I agree, I think you definitely need to find another vet! Those explanations are crazy sounding.
Poor guy, I am pretty sure he has metabolic bone disease most likely. It sounds like though, he
is doing better than when you got him.
What type/brand of UVB Lighting are you using for him?
Be sure to have his tank furniture lowered for him, so he can't fall & hurt himself in case his
bones are compromised some right now. I would also get him on a good liquid calcium also to
help out his levels.
Do you have pictures of him & the tank setup too?
It could be Adeno, but you would need to test to be sure. If you want to consider testing, you
can sign up on my page at:
www.thepats.info

I help support testing through a lab out of Allen/Dallas, Texas. They do the PCR testing for only
$20.

Tracie

Drache613":30t6ik8b said:

Hello,

I agree, I think you definitely need to find another vet! Those explanations are crazy sounding.
Poor guy, I am pretty sure he has metabolic bone disease most likely. It sounds like though, he
is doing better than when you got him.
What type/brand of UVB Lighting are you using for him?
Be sure to have his tank furniture lowered for him, so he can't fall & hurt himself in case his
bones are compromised some right now. I would also get him on a good liquid calcium also to
help out his levels.
Do you have pictures of him & the tank setup too?
It could be Adeno, but you would need to test to be sure. If you want to consider testing, you
can sign up on my page at:
http://www.thepats.info

I help support testing through a lab out of Allen/Dallas, Texas. They do the PCR testing for only
$20.

Tracie

Click to expand...

Hi Tracie,

Thank you for your response. I have a Reptisun 10.0 fluorescent tube light fixture in a reflective hood that sits diagonally above his cage. I just replaced the bulb two weeks ago, as well, in case that was a problem. I just recently purchased him some liquid calcium supplement that is in the mail right now, on its way, as well as some different products for vitamins A and B, and just some general TLC.

His cage furniture is low already, as I generally do low cage furniture for babies. Right now I do not have pictures handy, and I'm at work, but I think the issue may have been that when I rescued him, I rescued him with another dragon, as well, and when they were babies, I housed them together. He used to let her - the other dragon which I have sexed female - lay on him, but he was always bigger and always ate way more, so I wasn't worried. It was only recently, after I separated them (when they were about 2.5 months old - now they're 3 months), that I noticed that what I had previous taken to be just a quirky personality, may actually be metabolic bone disease that I never really treated.

When his walking rapidly became worse and he became jittery - this happened all in the span of a week that he declined really fast, and I'm not sure if this is normal - I got really worried. He has always walked on his ankles and always been a little loosey goosey with his back legs, but because he was always so energetic and vibrant, I always just thought those were quirks.

I have to wonder if he had a parasite this whole time, despite having mostly healthy poo, and that's why his MBD never got better despite calcium dusting, or if it was just his extremely rapid growth paired with his cage-mate's presence that didn't allow the calcium dusting and UV bulb to treat his MBD. He also had a really bad tail infection when I got him, which I treated and healed with betadine - maybe that contributed somehow? I'm not really sure. He is HUGE though - he around 100 g at 3 months, which is bigger than any dragon I've had at 3 months of age. Can dragons have growth disorders when they grow that fast?

Anyway, I have ordered supplementation galore, I give him veggies every day. Do I have any hope of treating this on my own? Or do I need to hurry up and find a better reptile vet?

Hello,

You definitely have a great chance of pulling him out of this. He is young so hopefully he will
respond quickly. Now that they are separated I think he has a great chance. They can often
develop calcium issues if they have rapid growth spurts if not enough calcium stores are laid
down early with the UVB exposure.
How is he doing today?
It sounds like he will have plenty of supplementation so hopefully that will help him out also.
Parasites are a possibility, due to stress of being housed with a dominant dragon. Heavy loads
of parasites/worms will usually interfere with nutrition.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

Drache613":2ia8l52y said:

Hello,

You definitely have a great chance of pulling him out of this. He is young so hopefully he will
respond quickly. Now that they are separated I think he has a great chance. They can often
develop calcium issues if they have rapid growth spurts if not enough calcium stores are laid
down early with the UVB exposure.
How is he doing today?
It sounds like he will have plenty of supplementation so hopefully that will help him out also.
Parasites are a possibility, due to stress of being housed with a dominant dragon. Heavy loads
of parasites/worms will usually interfere with nutrition.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

Click to expand...

That is just the thing! He was so much bigger than the dragon he was previously housed with - to put it into perspective, he's over 100 g WITH calcium issues at 3 months, and she is only 60 at 3 months. I got them at the same size 9 g - which is WAY too young, but as you know they were rescues, and I know it sounds crazy, but they already had major infections and clear MBD signs even that young

He ate way more food than her and never had black marks or anything. I'm just guessing that he had an even poorer foundation than I anticipated, and, as they were my first rescues, I didn't supplement them enough But I'm glad that there is hope of pulling him through

Hello,

There have been quite a few cases in which dragons develop metabolic bone disease simply
from growing so fast. It's hard to get enough calcium into them during that time. A little
extra right now wont hurt him.
I think you caught it in time so hopefully he will zap out of it pretty quickly. Just be very
vigilant about getting it to him daily.
How is he doing today?
Do keep us posted on his progress, we are all pulling for his recovery!

Tracie

Hi Tracie,

He is walking on his wrists still very badly, but the liquid calcium supplement just got here today, and I gave him his first dose. Should I still dust his food while giving him the calcium supplement?

Hello,

I wouldn't really recommend using both the powder & liquid unless you plan on using the liquid
on a few days per week & the powder a few days. What is the strength of the liquid calcium?
Using both at the same time may give him too much.
Sorry to hear he is still walking on his wrists but hopefully his strength will improve quickly for
him.

Tracie