First let me apologize for a long post in ER, there is a lot of crucial info and I want to provide all of it as quick as possible so I can get fast and accurate advice on what to do. I fear if I don't they will die.
I have been a proud owner of my 1 dragon Fenix for about 2 and a half months, but have done countless hours of research on beardies just in case I got in a pinch, and a pinch I am in. 5 days ago my friends boss offered him 2 beardies for $20, saying "The female is smaller than the male and not very social, they live together. I feed them mealworms. I've had them for about 3 months" and that was it, no pics or anything. My friend brought me the offer and I jumped on it, they arrived to my house via friend delivery the next night, and the state of the beardies was horrific...
First off, they both arrived together in a 10 gallon tank, which made me very sad because I knew it meant I was going to be shelling out $ for new tanks. I carried them inside and this is where I saw horror, these dragons never had a UV light, he sent all of his equipment, which included 1 blue heat light in a ZooMed 2 fixture. They also may have never had calcium powder, there was no trace of any in the tank and he didn't send any. In the tank itself was nasty. There was probably 30 pieces of poop that were molding and growing fungus, the substrate was sand that appeared to have been collected from outside and it was piled everywhere unevenly. The sand was also wet, probably from urate or water spilling and never being tended to.The water and food dish were full of mud and poop and runny yellow urate. The dragons were dark, skinny, and had their faces buried into the sand. I acted fast, taking the dragons out and cleaning out the tank, laying newspaper, and putting a cardboard wall between them. I then began examining the dragons for the first time.
(I will try to learn how to post pictures in the morning, but will describe as much as I can. I am sorry if this seems thrown together, in the last 5 days I have only gotten 3 hours of sleep because I have been caring for the dragons. I can't sleep in my warm bed knowing they are suffering, if I woke up and anything happened to them I would never forgive myself.)
I went out the next morning and got a 20 gallon tank for the male, a carpet, some ceramic tile, a heat light and 3 100 watt halogen bulbs for all my dragons, a 8w heat pad for the female, some carpet for her, and some ceramic tile for the male. I went to the pet store and got freeze dried crickets, a can of mini crickets, and fluker liquid calcium.
First I'll explain the male. He is about 5 - 8 inches long. After he got under the light he gained some energy and became very scared, glass surfing and running into walls a lot. Since he has calmed down a lot. In his new tank he has been almost nonstop basking on his cave and has gained some color. he is mid shed, and the loose skin has become very hard for him to get off. I mist him 4 times a day just about, and give him a bath every day. Because I don't have a scale, in the morning I just give him one drop of liquid calcium, when he licks it, he spasms a lot and shakes around for a couple seconds, but then he is more energetic than ever. I follow it up with some water, and if he hasn't passed his last meal, I replace the water with watered down vege oil to help him pass a fecal, he doesn't often drink the water or the vege oil. His meal increases every day. atm it is 2 crickets in the morning, 3 at night. Tomorrow I will give 3 in the morning, 4 at night, and do that every day. Should I stop at 6 in morning 6 at night until he starts gaining a lot of weight and improving in all aspects? I offer him kale with pear/raisins/grapes, but haven't seen him eat any of it. I provide fresh fruit, veggies, and water every morning. Since I got him, he gives about 2 fecals a day! at first they were small blue turds, covered in yellow clear liquid, and a very small but white urate. The first 2 had lots of sand, but since then they seem to have been clear of sand. He has obviously gained some weight because when I got him he was malnourished, but I still fear he has parasites. I also fear he has MBD because of the previous lack of calcium, but there are somehow not many signs. He occasionally has a small shake every 20 mins, followed by lifting a back leg, but he also just began shedding his tail and legs, so that could be why right? All his limbs look and feel okay, and he doesn't show any pain. I have no clue if he went though brumation already, it is possible because I doubt they got all the lighting they needed, I'm sure the old owner forgot to turn on the lights several times. But if he goes into it anytime soon I think it could kill him.
Next is the female, who is in AWFUL condition, and this is where I will need a LOT of help and outside perspective.
She is a microlepidota, so she is only about 3 - 3.5 inches long. Because she is so small (and I can't afford a scale) I let her lick a very small drop of liquid calcium in the morning, followed by water, when she drinks the liquid cal, she shakes violently for about 5 seconds, but then puts her head up and opens her eyes and starts moving around and climbing. It is very hard to get her to eat, and her bones are so weak that I can't open her mouth without breaking her jaw, because when I try she shakes quickly trying to escape. It is hard to tell if she has MBD or not, but it's likely. Because of her size I kept her in the 10 gallon because it will last her her whole life because she will only get about 5-6 inches long. The first day and a half I had her, she didn't even move. she kept her head down on the ground, both eyes closed and appeared to just rest. After giving her liquid cal every morning and plenty of water. she has improved a lot. however I fear she has ADV. parasites are likely, but I hear ADV makes dragons prone to all the common types of parasites and worms (which would explain why after all the water he stomach has gained some weight. Since the old tank was wet and had those red pellets, her skin is dyed red. ADV has me very scared and I don't know what to do about it. Her skin was very very dark but since I got her she has gained a LOT of color. (she also has 2 dark patches on her back? don't know what they are but I have been applying a healthy slab of Mupirocin USP 2% in the morning, and bathing it off of her at night). I bathe all my dragons at least once a day if not more, and mist them all several times since they are all shedding. My biggest concern is that the male (who doesn't seem extremely sick like the female) has contracted ADV from her. In the 10 minutes I had them together not separated he stepped on her head and nipped her tail, leaving a kink. So with them being in so much contact for about 3 months, is it even possible that he doesn't have adv? He doesn't show many signs of it, he holds his head up and eats normally. In the last 5 days the female ate half of a 2 week old cricket, a few very small pieces of kale, and a quarter of a raisin. Tomorrow I am going to try to syringe her some squash baby food. She has also only given me 3 very small fecals, that are always covered in a lot of yellowish clear liquid, the poop contains a decent amount of sand, and the urate is white. Lately she has been moving around a lot more, and occasionally glass surfs (loaded with stress marks, but go away more each day. her right eye is very infected, I thought she was missing it at first, but after days of wiping her eye with a wet q tip, the pupil has finally shown itself, her eyeball appears to be pushed down into her head about 2 or 3 millimeters, so I'm not sure if she is blind in it, it is very rare that she opens it.
So before you comment the obvious, "take them to the vet for fecals and injections and xrays" I want to put it out there that I sadly can NOT afford to take them to the vet. I don't even know if there is a vet withing 2 hours of me that deals with reptiles, but I know that my local vet is very pricey, I'm going to call and explain the situation to him and hope he offers to look at them for free, but I am dirt broke and just can't take them to a vet.
I have stressed about this non stop and don't know what else to do, should I euthanize the female in the most peaceful way I can afford to? She is improving a lot, but it is my understanding that ADV is incurable and cuts the life of a reptile by many years, and causes them to always be in pain. If not, then what are some things I should save up for to help them? I need veteran beardie parent advice or advice from any vets who might read this (if anyone reads it at all).
I sanitize all my utensils that come in contact with the infected reptiles every hour, and I sanitize and wash my hands thoroughly every hour to prevent cross contamination to my ever so healthy 15" dragon fenix. (speaking of him, I let him eat as much as he can or wants in 10 minutes in the morning and 2 hours before bed, he is getting quite fat, is this okay? Or will it hurt his liver?) is it safe to give the male a drop of liquid cal each morning and dust his crickets every other day?
The 2 sick dragons (Scuddle and Iris btw) each have a 100w halogen bulb, and are sharing a 18" UVB reptisun light (tanks are side by side but they can't see eachother, can't afford another fixture) the uvb was originally for Fenix's 40gal tank, but I replaced it with a smaller 5.0 reptisun UVB light fixture I had on standby, he also has a 100w halogen. (Because he has a smaller UVB light now, it only reaches about half his tank, it is above his basking spot which is where he spends most of the day anyways.
I know there isn't too much I can do for them, but they are rapidly improving and I want to save them because they are good dragons and don't deserve to die like this because some a**hole couldn't care for them any less than a hawk would, they get a fair shot at life just like we do and every other dragon in captivity gets. I just need to know things that I am not doing that could help. I have spent many hours online doing research and am now reaching out to the BD community for help. I need sleep. I will check this in the morning for advice, thanks in advance.
I have been a proud owner of my 1 dragon Fenix for about 2 and a half months, but have done countless hours of research on beardies just in case I got in a pinch, and a pinch I am in. 5 days ago my friends boss offered him 2 beardies for $20, saying "The female is smaller than the male and not very social, they live together. I feed them mealworms. I've had them for about 3 months" and that was it, no pics or anything. My friend brought me the offer and I jumped on it, they arrived to my house via friend delivery the next night, and the state of the beardies was horrific...
First off, they both arrived together in a 10 gallon tank, which made me very sad because I knew it meant I was going to be shelling out $ for new tanks. I carried them inside and this is where I saw horror, these dragons never had a UV light, he sent all of his equipment, which included 1 blue heat light in a ZooMed 2 fixture. They also may have never had calcium powder, there was no trace of any in the tank and he didn't send any. In the tank itself was nasty. There was probably 30 pieces of poop that were molding and growing fungus, the substrate was sand that appeared to have been collected from outside and it was piled everywhere unevenly. The sand was also wet, probably from urate or water spilling and never being tended to.The water and food dish were full of mud and poop and runny yellow urate. The dragons were dark, skinny, and had their faces buried into the sand. I acted fast, taking the dragons out and cleaning out the tank, laying newspaper, and putting a cardboard wall between them. I then began examining the dragons for the first time.
(I will try to learn how to post pictures in the morning, but will describe as much as I can. I am sorry if this seems thrown together, in the last 5 days I have only gotten 3 hours of sleep because I have been caring for the dragons. I can't sleep in my warm bed knowing they are suffering, if I woke up and anything happened to them I would never forgive myself.)
I went out the next morning and got a 20 gallon tank for the male, a carpet, some ceramic tile, a heat light and 3 100 watt halogen bulbs for all my dragons, a 8w heat pad for the female, some carpet for her, and some ceramic tile for the male. I went to the pet store and got freeze dried crickets, a can of mini crickets, and fluker liquid calcium.
First I'll explain the male. He is about 5 - 8 inches long. After he got under the light he gained some energy and became very scared, glass surfing and running into walls a lot. Since he has calmed down a lot. In his new tank he has been almost nonstop basking on his cave and has gained some color. he is mid shed, and the loose skin has become very hard for him to get off. I mist him 4 times a day just about, and give him a bath every day. Because I don't have a scale, in the morning I just give him one drop of liquid calcium, when he licks it, he spasms a lot and shakes around for a couple seconds, but then he is more energetic than ever. I follow it up with some water, and if he hasn't passed his last meal, I replace the water with watered down vege oil to help him pass a fecal, he doesn't often drink the water or the vege oil. His meal increases every day. atm it is 2 crickets in the morning, 3 at night. Tomorrow I will give 3 in the morning, 4 at night, and do that every day. Should I stop at 6 in morning 6 at night until he starts gaining a lot of weight and improving in all aspects? I offer him kale with pear/raisins/grapes, but haven't seen him eat any of it. I provide fresh fruit, veggies, and water every morning. Since I got him, he gives about 2 fecals a day! at first they were small blue turds, covered in yellow clear liquid, and a very small but white urate. The first 2 had lots of sand, but since then they seem to have been clear of sand. He has obviously gained some weight because when I got him he was malnourished, but I still fear he has parasites. I also fear he has MBD because of the previous lack of calcium, but there are somehow not many signs. He occasionally has a small shake every 20 mins, followed by lifting a back leg, but he also just began shedding his tail and legs, so that could be why right? All his limbs look and feel okay, and he doesn't show any pain. I have no clue if he went though brumation already, it is possible because I doubt they got all the lighting they needed, I'm sure the old owner forgot to turn on the lights several times. But if he goes into it anytime soon I think it could kill him.
Next is the female, who is in AWFUL condition, and this is where I will need a LOT of help and outside perspective.
She is a microlepidota, so she is only about 3 - 3.5 inches long. Because she is so small (and I can't afford a scale) I let her lick a very small drop of liquid calcium in the morning, followed by water, when she drinks the liquid cal, she shakes violently for about 5 seconds, but then puts her head up and opens her eyes and starts moving around and climbing. It is very hard to get her to eat, and her bones are so weak that I can't open her mouth without breaking her jaw, because when I try she shakes quickly trying to escape. It is hard to tell if she has MBD or not, but it's likely. Because of her size I kept her in the 10 gallon because it will last her her whole life because she will only get about 5-6 inches long. The first day and a half I had her, she didn't even move. she kept her head down on the ground, both eyes closed and appeared to just rest. After giving her liquid cal every morning and plenty of water. she has improved a lot. however I fear she has ADV. parasites are likely, but I hear ADV makes dragons prone to all the common types of parasites and worms (which would explain why after all the water he stomach has gained some weight. Since the old tank was wet and had those red pellets, her skin is dyed red. ADV has me very scared and I don't know what to do about it. Her skin was very very dark but since I got her she has gained a LOT of color. (she also has 2 dark patches on her back? don't know what they are but I have been applying a healthy slab of Mupirocin USP 2% in the morning, and bathing it off of her at night). I bathe all my dragons at least once a day if not more, and mist them all several times since they are all shedding. My biggest concern is that the male (who doesn't seem extremely sick like the female) has contracted ADV from her. In the 10 minutes I had them together not separated he stepped on her head and nipped her tail, leaving a kink. So with them being in so much contact for about 3 months, is it even possible that he doesn't have adv? He doesn't show many signs of it, he holds his head up and eats normally. In the last 5 days the female ate half of a 2 week old cricket, a few very small pieces of kale, and a quarter of a raisin. Tomorrow I am going to try to syringe her some squash baby food. She has also only given me 3 very small fecals, that are always covered in a lot of yellowish clear liquid, the poop contains a decent amount of sand, and the urate is white. Lately she has been moving around a lot more, and occasionally glass surfs (loaded with stress marks, but go away more each day. her right eye is very infected, I thought she was missing it at first, but after days of wiping her eye with a wet q tip, the pupil has finally shown itself, her eyeball appears to be pushed down into her head about 2 or 3 millimeters, so I'm not sure if she is blind in it, it is very rare that she opens it.
So before you comment the obvious, "take them to the vet for fecals and injections and xrays" I want to put it out there that I sadly can NOT afford to take them to the vet. I don't even know if there is a vet withing 2 hours of me that deals with reptiles, but I know that my local vet is very pricey, I'm going to call and explain the situation to him and hope he offers to look at them for free, but I am dirt broke and just can't take them to a vet.
I have stressed about this non stop and don't know what else to do, should I euthanize the female in the most peaceful way I can afford to? She is improving a lot, but it is my understanding that ADV is incurable and cuts the life of a reptile by many years, and causes them to always be in pain. If not, then what are some things I should save up for to help them? I need veteran beardie parent advice or advice from any vets who might read this (if anyone reads it at all).
I sanitize all my utensils that come in contact with the infected reptiles every hour, and I sanitize and wash my hands thoroughly every hour to prevent cross contamination to my ever so healthy 15" dragon fenix. (speaking of him, I let him eat as much as he can or wants in 10 minutes in the morning and 2 hours before bed, he is getting quite fat, is this okay? Or will it hurt his liver?) is it safe to give the male a drop of liquid cal each morning and dust his crickets every other day?
The 2 sick dragons (Scuddle and Iris btw) each have a 100w halogen bulb, and are sharing a 18" UVB reptisun light (tanks are side by side but they can't see eachother, can't afford another fixture) the uvb was originally for Fenix's 40gal tank, but I replaced it with a smaller 5.0 reptisun UVB light fixture I had on standby, he also has a 100w halogen. (Because he has a smaller UVB light now, it only reaches about half his tank, it is above his basking spot which is where he spends most of the day anyways.
I know there isn't too much I can do for them, but they are rapidly improving and I want to save them because they are good dragons and don't deserve to die like this because some a**hole couldn't care for them any less than a hawk would, they get a fair shot at life just like we do and every other dragon in captivity gets. I just need to know things that I am not doing that could help. I have spent many hours online doing research and am now reaching out to the BD community for help. I need sleep. I will check this in the morning for advice, thanks in advance.