Parthenogenesis?

I don't usually post on this forum (I'm really a gecko person), but I have a situation where I hope someone can give me some advice. I have an 8 year old bearded dragon that I've owned for 4 years. In all that time she has not been with a male though she lays eggs every year. This year I incubated some of her eggs, just for a laugh, and one candled fertile. About 2 weeks ago, after about 9 weeks, the egg started to collapse and there was no hatch. Tonight I opened the egg to find a dead, but well-formed bearded dragon fetus. I have not read anywhere about parthenogenesis in bearded dragons and don't know whether, if she had been exposed to a male 4 or 5 years ago, she could still be storing sperm. I have wrapped the egg and its contents in saran wrap, put that in a zip-loc bag and put it in the fridge. Is there any other way I should preserve it? Is there anyone I should notify?

Thanks,

Aliza

I've heard of beardie's laying eggs w/o sex. I don't know how it works tho :/

Laying eggs without sex happens all the time and the eggs are supposed to be all infertile. My beardie laid 125 eggs last year when she was 7. The unusual thing in this case was having one of the eggs be fertile.

Aliza

That is very interesting!! There are a lot of rumors floating around about parthenogenesis in reptiles and amphibians, unfortunately there is not much in terms of scientific consensus on the subject. If it was sperm retained from such a long time ago, it would make sense that the fetus was not viable and didn't make it, but 4 years is a LONG time to retain sperm. If you have money to burn, you could have a DNA comparison done. If it was parthenogenesis, the genetic make up of the fetus and your girl should be identical. It might be possible for your vet to do it, but I have no idea what the cost might be.

I have a female snow pastel hypo het trans leatherback that I got as a 2 month old hatchling around 5/10 that has either been by herself or with other females and has never been with a male. About 3 months ago she gave me 14 eggs, all but 4 were bad and the remaining when candled gave me viable embryos. a few weeks ago 2 hatched fine and the other 2 were fully developed but did not make it thru the hatching process. Both hatchlings are doing great. I have done a little research and parthenogenesis is possible in some reptiles and has been documented in snakes, geckos and small lizards. I am not a vet, but I guess that female reptiles have ZW chromozomes, unlike mammals that use XY, and that they can self procreate if the urge is strong enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis One looks exactly like mom as a baby and I think is a "clone"/ZW and the other has mom's coloring and pattern but is a silkie, I believe is a "half clone"/ZZ and male. The 2 that did not survive hatching I have preserved in alcohol and believe thay are probably WW, which rarely survive. Would love to do some DNA testing but I think it is very expensive.

Parthenogenesis is possible no matter what specie you are. There is no one that can say "never" because they simply have not tested every animal on the planet to compare. However, no rumors, there is parthenogenesis in lizards, it happens to be the sole means of reproduction for certain lizard species. They are all female, some females will mate each other, but it is an act, or dance, possibly to stimulate ovulation, but nonetheless, no sperm + fetus = parthenogenesis. Possible in bearded dragons? At the numbers they are produced, the chances of this happening are pretty good. I would not be shocked, but there is no science, you should have it tested.

iv heard of iguanas laying fertile eggs but never beardies :shock: reptiles are so strange we know so little about them

WOW! This is nuts! Godzilla (RIP) laid many eggs, it never would have occurred to me to candle them.

acpart,

My advise to you would be to turn the home preserved samples over to your natural history museum, or the biology department of your local college. They will probably be happy to take the specimens and run needed tests on them. If you go that route, they need the date, time, location, conditions of those samples. I ran a quick search for Pogona and parthenogenesis through a research library at work and didn't find anything useful. Parthenogenesis is a reproductive strategy evolved over millions of generations accross clades. It occurs in insects (invertebrates) to whip-tails (the highest vertebrate order where parthenogenesis has been recorded). There have been antecdotal tales of it in othere vertebrate genras, and I will continue to do research and have something better to post by tomorrow. But, if you think parthenogenesis is the case, please do not try to ananyze the specimens yourself. Please contact your natural history museum or local biology dept of a college.

-Petri's Mom

Very interesting... (I'm really just commenting because I want to see where this post goes )

Have been conversing with a vet that also breeds beardies and have given him all the info and 2 of the preserved babies. He is going to do a full necropsy, sexing and DNA testing of both of them. He is also going to discuss this with a few other vets who are also into parthenogenisis. May take some time but will let you all know what happens.

Also, the female beardie in question is getting fatter and I think we may have some eggs forming. Crossing my fingers for more viable eggs. :mrgreen: :?:

Very interesting... I would love to know the results. I never even knew that was possible!