enclosure height minimum?

Discuss substrates, lighting, heating, enclosure building ideas, share enclosure photos, and talk about any other enclosure-related topics.

enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:22 pm

I was hunting for an enclosure with the dimensions 36”x24”x24” and found something on craigslist. An hour and a half of driving later I arrived to find a wooden enclosure with the dimensions 36”x24”x16” (still an improvement to my beardie's current 40-gallon breeder). I almost walked but after getting the seller to go down quite a bit in price (I could easily sell it for more than I bought it) and reasoning that I might be able to modify it, I bought it.
My big question: on the inside the measurements are 34”x22”x14”, is 14” of height too short? Is there a minimum or recommended height for a bearded dragon enclosure?
The UVB fixture (T8) is mounted on the inside with the bulb 12 inches from the floor. The heat fixture is also mounted on the inside but I will be cutting a hole to put screen in for my domes to sit on so my beardie cannot touch the hot bulbs and they are out of her way. Should the UVB receive the same course of action (minus the screen). There are ways I can “raise the roof.” I could pop the roof off and put some 2by4s on all sides to raise everything up another 4 inches.
If I raise the roof and the UVB fixture, should I upgrade to a T5 fixture? Should I regardless of whether or not I modify the enclosure?
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:33 am

24" is very good.

I'd not go under 16" high for a bearded dragon tank's height.
This is the minimum height I'd have if using a par38 incandescent spot or a MVB , these will need to be mounted off the vertical in a 16" (40cm) tall tank when mounted under the lid. 18" (45cm) tall is better .

You need to take into account the following aspects : SOLID LID
basking lamp and fixture , total overall length of bulb + fitting and minimum distance to give a nice basking spot at 40 degC.
UV requirement , aim for (200 microW UVB + 1 mW UVA) / sq.cm at the basking spot and 1/3 to 1/2 these at the floor in the warm zone.
height of basking spot.
Height of a basking dragon (will change as the dragon grows from hatchling to mature adult).

If the lid is mesh (wire) , you might get away with a tank 15" tall. Bare in mind the mesh needs to be resistant to high temperatures (under and very close to the bottom of the basking bulb and any CHE you might need in winter).
The mesh will block some of the UV , a fine mesh will block over 50%, a loose mesh will block 40%. Mount the UV under the mesh lid.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10987
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:45 am

I have a fixture mounted on the inside for an 18 inch tubular UVB (T8). Would this work? Do I need to worry about my beardie being able to reach it?

For the heat fixtures, I am thinking about using the dome fixtures which sit on top of my beardie's 40-gallon breeder. I would cut circular slots out of the solid wood top, lay aluminum mesh over the hole, and situate the fixtures on top.

Also, how do I measure microW UVB and mW UVA / sq. cm?
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby claudiusx » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:54 am

Unless you buy a $300 meter you're not going to measure uvb. Idk why that ever gets suggested. 99% of people aren't going to spend that type of cash on a tool that hardly will be used for the average hobbyist.

14 inches is pretty low. You get into issues of difficulties with heart gradients and proper uv exposure. Your idea for the heat lamp would work. As far as the uvb bulb that would be an issue.

If you mount a t8 inside a 14 inch height, you gotta imagine 2 or 3 inches will be taken up by the fixture. So that leaves you 11 or 12 inches from the bottom. This severely limits the height of the items you can place in your enclosure as you don't want you dragon to be getting too close to the bulb. Too much uvb is just as bad as not enough in some cases.

To make your setup work, I'd be more inclined to buy a t5 HO bulb and mount it outside of the tank in a manner in which you're doing with the heat bulb. That will allow you to have some more usable branches and rocks in your tank without your dragon getting over exposed top uvb.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16434
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:21 am

If I were to raise the roof another 4-6 inches, would it still be recommended to mount the heat and UVB fixtures on the outside? Would a T5 bulb still be best in this situation? Does it matter whether or not the fixture is reflective (so all UVB goes down and away from the fixture) or just plastic (like it is now)?
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby claudiusx » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:26 am

If you raised it that would work much better imo.

One of my customs I built is only 20 inches tall and I mounted one of those flat porcelain sockets to the roof of it, and the tube mounted inside to the roof too. I still wasn't perfectly satisfied with the height which is why my current builds are all 24 inches tall.

If you raised yours you could use the t8 bulb inside and allow your baking surface to get within 8 inches of it. This will allow the floor of the tank and other areas to have much lower uv exposure so that your dragon can escape the rays if it so chooses. You eliminate that option if you mount inside and your tank isn't tall enough.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16434
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 am

lilyofsalen wrote:I have a fixture mounted on the inside for an 18 inch tubular UVB (T8). Would this work? Do I need to worry about my beardie being able to reach it?

For the heat fixtures, I am thinking about using the dome fixtures which sit on top of my beardie's 40-gallon breeder. I would cut circular slots out of the solid wood top, lay aluminum mesh over the hole, and situate the fixtures on top.

Also, how do I measure microW UVB and mW UVA / sq. cm?


There are charts provided on the boxes that will tell you how much UVA and UVB is emitted by a globe or tube at a series of distances , these charts are very accurate for BRAND NEW UV sources .
You can simply graph the UVA and UVB fluxes vs distance and read off the from the graph the UVA and UVB flux in microW / sq.cm for the distance you think you have to work with or that you've measured with a tape rule and bingo you have the result.

Here is an example I put together for several different UVB sources based on manufacturers' UVB vs distance specifications :
Image
Can easily see the difference between T8 and T5ho tubes of similar UVB rating. No iffy handwaving here. You can see the data for UVB vs distance at a glance.

Any high school kid can do that kind of graphical maths.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10987
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:59 am

I know that reptiles are sensitive to pine, eucalyptus, and cedar shavings. Does the same apply to painted and sealed pinewood? Or should it be avoided even as a building material? Also, is there a safe glue I could use? Furthermore, a safe sealant and paint?
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby claudiusx » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:04 am

If the wood is sealed over it poses no toxic risks.
Almost all paints and sealers are non toxic too once fully cured.
The key it's making sure they are fully cured. If you still can smell them, they aren't cured. Despite what the label says.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16434
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:33 pm

[Click image to enlarge]


Hello again, been a while but this is what I've got done. The enclosure is now 28 inches tall. Just had some more lighting questions. I've been using the pet store basking lights for a while now but I'm sick of them burning out within a month or two. Now I'm trying halogen floodlights but try as I might I can't find any that are a daylight color, all I've found so far are a warm white. I've been told that color besides a bright white daylight color is rough on the beardies eyes, what halogens do you use? Furthermore, is a warm white ok?
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby claudiusx » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:52 pm

If you're using a tube uvb, the Kelvin rating on it will be high enough, a warmer white bulb won't cause any issues.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16434
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:15 pm

ok thank you, I'm using a t5 ho fixture with reflector and a t5 arcadia 12% 22 inch tube. I've read the basking spot needs to be 12-14 inches from the bulb for a reptisun 10.0. Is the arcadia 12% the same basking distance?

According to kingofnobbys' chart, the targeted 200 microW UVB for a new T5 HO arcadia 12% is hit at just about 10 inches (or 26 cm). I've been told that arcadias are better bulbs so I have a hard time believing their UVB output is less than reptisun. I would also like to see what another source's numbers say as well but I'm having troubles finding one, could you point me to a good resource?
Last edited by lilyofsalen on Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby claudiusx » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:24 pm

Arcadia recommends 12-18 inches as an acceptable range from the basking surface for the t5 version of the 12% :)

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16434
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby lilyofsalen » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:29 pm

Thank you, could you give me a link?
lilyofsalen
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: enclosure height minimum?

Postby claudiusx » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:35 pm

User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16434
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Next

Return to Enclosures

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]