2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby claudiusx » Wed May 15, 2019 6:46 am

kingofnobbys wrote:SO if there is no reflector , the 10% UVB T5ho needs to about 5 inches from the basking spot, if there tube is in a reflector hood , this becomes 11 inches for a NEW 10% UVB t5ho tube.


5 inches is WAY to close for a t5. Reflector or not.

The goal isnt to give your dragon as much uv exposure as possible... uv Ray's are damaging, many seem to forget that. The goal is to provide enough uv for vit d3 synthesis to occur in the skin (scales) and that will easily be accomplished even by a t8 at 11 inches away.

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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby btrippcsci » Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
btrippcsci wrote:

Hey,

Thanks for the details in your reply. I have the t5ho ballast. It is mounted under the mesh. So the bulb is about 2 inches from the top mesh and the tank height is 18”. Posting pictures shortly.


Is this a domestic ballast or a proper reflector hood ?
The effect of the paraboloid shaped reflectors in hoods is to
1) redirect the UV towards the reptile
2) focus and concentrate the UV in the reptile's direction
3) essentially double the UVA and UVB flux at any given distance from the tube.

SO if there is no reflector , the 10% UVB T5ho needs to about 5 inches from the basking spot, if there tube is in a reflector hood , this becomes 11 inches for a NEW 10% UVB t5ho tube.
Image


Where do you all get this information from. I love all of the details.

I have this bulb and setup.
Carolina Custom Cages Reptile 22" T5HO UVB + Single GU10 Basking Light Fixture https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K2BIM1Q/re ... 3CbZZCMHW1
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby btrippcsci » Wed May 15, 2019 6:51 am

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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby claudiusx » Wed May 15, 2019 6:55 am

Your setup looks good. Curiously, what is the temp at where he is basking in that picture. Hes to the side of the intense part of the beam. Like mentioned, they are pretty good at picking the spot that has the temperature they want :)

Goes to show you too why you cant rely on only dial thermometers in your tank, a digital with probe or temp gun is a must! :D

You are doing everything right, I'd just give your new guy some time. He looks very alert and healthy so that's a great sign.

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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby kmwilson042182 » Wed May 15, 2019 7:37 am

I agree with Brandon everything looks good and it sounds like you are doing things right. Just a few small tweaks and hopefully the relocation stress will go away soon. I was lucky with my latest guy because he ate 30 dubias 5 minutes after I took him out of the box and never looked backed. My other dragon was 6 months when I got him though and his relocation stress was very bad and he didn’t eat much for a couple weeks, so it really just depends on the dragon. It’s hard to tell but it does look like some of those dubia in the tub may be a little large for him/her. Good rule of thumb is nothing larger than space between the eyes. Better to go small than too large. Too large can cause another set of problems and too small, well they just eat more. Also is that a super worm or a meal worm in the tub? I definitely would stay away from both for now. They could cause impaction issues on a tiny dragon. Dubia, crickets, bsf, silkworms are what you want for your baby. People do feed mealworms, superworms and buffalo worms ( really tiny ones) to babies successfully, but in my opinion it’s not worth the risk. Good luck with you little one! Great looking little dragon. I heard the lady at Atomic Lizard Ranch is very helpful too if you run into problems and I believe that’s where he/she is from correct?

Kyle
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed May 15, 2019 7:43 am

The IRT207 is not that flash ; spot size ratio 8:1 , means a very large measuring spot cf better units, ie my gun has a spot size ratio of 18:1 as well a other good features such
>> adjustable emissivity
>> statistical calculation mode (min, max, mean, medium, standard variation, and a few others)

Better than nothing.
Unfortunately most cheaper consumer ir guns are preset give correct temperatures only for surfaces with an emissivity of 0.95 , and building bricks have a very much lower emissivity ( e = 0.45 ) so if the bricks are your basking spot , you will not get an accurate temperature reading from your gun , see this for more information : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=239064&p=1833542#p1833542
and this explain more : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=239064&p=1833542#p1833542
It is possible to compensate for emissivity errors but the calculations involved will be beyond most reptile keepers who don't have the necessary physics or engineering education , the existing IR gun is likely 20 to 30 degrees Celsius out when reading the surface temperature the bricks.

For those who have some university physics and engineering the brief explanation is as follows :
the degree to which errors in emissivity settings will affect temperature and T_error (error in temperature) accuracy even not often understood by many professional physicists , engineers , chemists and thermographers . The Stefan-Boltzmann Law gives the radiated infrared energy emitted by a target surface and shows this is exponentially related to the absolute temperature of that surface.
The equation is E_b=εσT^4 where ε is the surface emissivity and the true surface temperature is calculated using this equation
Image


The dual thermometer / hydrometer dial analog unit is rubbish - I'd return it to the shop and exchange for something like this : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIGITAL-LCD ... Sw2GlXKpLF
I've used one of these for years , and checked , quite accurate wrt temperature and %RH .

Just for air and surface temperatures, these are great and very accurate (I've checked under laboratory conditions) : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3x-LCD-Digi ... 0008.m2219
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby btrippcsci » Wed May 15, 2019 8:47 am

claudiusx wrote:Your setup looks good. Curiously, what is the temp at where he is basking in that picture. Hes to the side of the intense part of the beam. Like mentioned, they are pretty good at picking the spot that has the temperature they want :)

Goes to show you too why you cant rely on only dial thermometers in your tank, a digital with probe or temp gun is a must! :D

You are doing everything right, I'd just give your new guy some time. He looks very alert and healthy so that's a great sign.

-Brandon


Thanks the temp is 110 there.
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby btrippcsci » Wed May 15, 2019 8:52 am

kmwilson042182 wrote:I agree with Brandon everything looks good and it sounds like you are doing things right. Just a few small tweaks and hopefully the relocation stress will go away soon. I was lucky with my latest guy because he ate 30 dubias 5 minutes after I took him out of the box and never looked backed. My other dragon was 6 months when I got him though and his relocation stress was very bad and he didn’t eat much for a couple weeks, so it really just depends on the dragon. It’s hard to tell but it does look like some of those dubia in the tub may be a little large for him/her. Good rule of thumb is nothing larger than space between the eyes. Better to go small than too large. Too large can cause another set of problems and too small, well they just eat more. Also is that a super worm or a meal worm in the tub? I definitely would stay away from both for now. They could cause impaction issues on a tiny dragon. Dubia, crickets, bsf, silkworms are what you want for your baby. People do feed mealworms, superworms and buffalo worms ( really tiny ones) to babies successfully, but in my opinion it’s not worth the risk. Good luck with you little one! Great looking little dragon. I heard the lady at Atomic Lizard Ranch is very helpful too if you run into problems and I believe that’s where he/she is from correct?

Kyle


Is it possible that I am feeding too big of dubia to where he is only eating max of 3 in 10 minutes. Versus 10 considerably smaller ones? And also too big might be scared of them or thinks he can’t eat it. What size roaches do you recommend? I just bought some half inch ones the other day that are on the way. Should I be getting smaller?pretty sure between his eyes are right at half inch.

It was a superworm and I was trying everything to get him interested. Will stop those.

Yea I got him from Atomic Lizard Ranch.
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby claudiusx » Wed May 15, 2019 9:02 am

Yup if they are bigger, naturally it will take a smaller number to fill him up. That's why I say a lot of times too, that as long as they are eating something that's a good sign. People get too into the numbers game. They are living creatures and they are all different, just like us. :)

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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed May 15, 2019 9:09 am

btrippcsci wrote:
kmwilson042182 wrote:I agree with Brandon everything looks good and it sounds like you are doing things right. Just a few small tweaks and hopefully the relocation stress will go away soon. I was lucky with my latest guy because he ate 30 dubias 5 minutes after I took him out of the box and never looked backed. My other dragon was 6 months when I got him though and his relocation stress was very bad and he didn’t eat much for a couple weeks, so it really just depends on the dragon. It’s hard to tell but it does look like some of those dubia in the tub may be a little large for him/her. Good rule of thumb is nothing larger than space between the eyes. Better to go small than too large. Too large can cause another set of problems and too small, well they just eat more. Also is that a super worm or a meal worm in the tub? I definitely would stay away from both for now. They could cause impaction issues on a tiny dragon. Dubia, crickets, bsf, silkworms are what you want for your baby. People do feed mealworms, superworms and buffalo worms ( really tiny ones) to babies successfully, but in my opinion it’s not worth the risk. Good luck with you little one! Great looking little dragon. I heard the lady at Atomic Lizard Ranch is very helpful too if you run into problems and I believe that’s where he/she is from correct?

Kyle


Is it possible that I am feeding too big of dubia to where he is only eating max of 3 in 10 minutes. Versus 10 considerably smaller ones? And also too big might be scared of them or thinks he can’t eat it. What size roaches do you recommend? I just bought some half inch ones the other day that are on the way. Should I be getting smaller?pretty sure between his eyes are right at half inch.

It was a superworm and I was trying everything to get him interested. Will stop those.

Yea I got him from Atomic Lizard Ranch.


If the roach / cricket / locust is bigger than space between his eyes , it's too big.

This rule doesn't apply to soft insects like silkworms.

My current two hatchlings Caesar and Cleopatra were eating 6 to 8 x BSFL or 1/4 size crickets per sitting each , this was 3 meals per day at 2 - 3 months old.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby kmwilson042182 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:30 am

I am using 1/4 inch dubia nymphs right now hence the reason he eats so many. If you did give bigger ones then they definitely eat less, so if they were 1/2 inch or larger then they are probably 2-3x what I am using. I agree though don’t get too much into bug counts cause they are all different. I have one eating machine and one who eats the bare minimum. Happy, healthy and growing is all that matters.

Kyle
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby btrippcsci » Wed May 15, 2019 10:06 am

All of this is making more sense now. I think it is a mixture of stress and possibly too big of insects. As well as minor changes to basking area etc. what type of rock do you all using
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby claudiusx » Wed May 15, 2019 10:10 am

Moro just has a rock from my property.
Tombo has a piece of driftwood that I picked up at a petstore.

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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby kmwilson042182 » Wed May 15, 2019 10:12 am

I just have flagstone rocks that I bought at Home Depot in the garden section. Good soak with f10 solution and bake in the oven for awhile to sterilize
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Re: 2 Month old only eats maybe 1 to 2 roaches per feeding

Postby btrippcsci » Wed May 15, 2019 10:14 am

kingofnobbys wrote:The IRT207 is not that flash ; spot size ratio 8:1 , means a very large measuring spot cf better units, ie my gun has a spot size ratio of 18:1 as well a other good features such
>> adjustable emissivity
>> statistical calculation mode (min, max, mean, medium, standard variation, and a few others)

Better than nothing.
Unfortunately most cheaper consumer ir guns are preset give correct temperatures only for surfaces with an emissivity of 0.95 , and building bricks have a very much lower emissivity ( e = 0.45 ) so if the bricks are your basking spot , you will not get an accurate temperature reading from your gun , see this for more information : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=239064&p=1833542#p1833542
and this explain more : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=239064&p=1833542#p1833542
It is possible to compensate for emissivity errors but the calculations involved will be beyond most reptile keepers who don't have the necessary physics or engineering education , the existing IR gun is likely 20 to 30 degrees Celsius out when reading the surface temperature the bricks.

For those who have some university physics and engineering the brief explanation is as follows :
the degree to which errors in emissivity settings will affect temperature and T_error (error in temperature) accuracy even not often understood by many professional physicists , engineers , chemists and thermographers . The Stefan-Boltzmann Law gives the radiated infrared energy emitted by a target surface and shows this is exponentially related to the absolute temperature of that surface.
The equation is E_b=εσT^4 where ε is the surface emissivity and the true surface temperature is calculated using this equation
Image


The dual thermometer / hydrometer dial analog unit is rubbish - I'd return it to the shop and exchange for something like this : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIGITAL-LCD ... Sw2GlXKpLF
I've used one of these for years , and checked , quite accurate wrt temperature and %RH .

Just for air and surface temperatures, these are great and very accurate (I've checked under laboratory conditions) : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3x-LCD-Digi ... 0008.m2219


Hey,

Great information. I am no physicist. However, I do have a computer science degree and love the details.

What brick or rock do you recon for dragons to bask on?
What temp gun do you recommend?

The first link you posted I found some similar looking thermometers (black rectangle ones) and it had mixed reviews on Amazon so did just about every one of them. There was a 50 dollar one that I was going to get that would allow me to check from my phone as well as log the changes in temp and humidity. But probably don’t need that.
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