Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Discuss topics of food for your beardies here.

Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby AreG » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:42 pm

[TOPIC AUTO-LOCKED DUE TO INACTIVITY]

Hi
I read 'all over the net' that seafood and shellfish are absolutely no-go for beardies.
I´m geting curious regarding this, but struggle to discover arguments I find plausible.. The closer I have come to something scientiffic, is a statement saying seafood will boost the niacin level to really unhealty levels, but if you look to the arctic prawn, or the north atlantic common crab, both of them contain smaller amounts of niacin than any of the 4 most common feeder insects.

On paper, seafood (shellfish in particular) looks better for bearded dragon than most common used feeder insects..

so: do anyone know the scientific reasons for seafood beeing bad for beardies?

just want to dig deeper in this subject :)
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:31 pm

I don't think it's so much , bad for bearded dragons to eat small fish, small prawns, shell fish, but more the case that bearded dragons never naturally have access to these in the wild.
The exception will those very rare times when there is flowing water and standing water after very intensive tropical lows dump rain in their natural range, it is then that small shrimps and fish that have laid dormant in the clay emerge and can be a temporary food source in shallow water , as well as tadpoles and frogs.


See for fishes bearded dragons might encounter in their natural range : https://www.desertfishes.org/australia/fish/index.html , for crustrations and shell fish , see people.rses.anu.edu.au/dedeckker_p/pubs/120.pdf
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : , Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Gutzy (F) rescued 27Sep19 - RIP 3Aug20 (est 12 yo), Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby AreG » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:28 am

Thanx for the links and added insight, I really like this kind of info as I feel it aids a better understanding of the enviroment these animals comes from :-D

Originally my idea, was to make frozen food for my beardie, as a backup in case I was not able to feed it live insects for shorter periodes. While investigating this option, it came to my understanding that this is not an alternative, and that the only good source for proteins is live insects.
I absolutely respect that, but it left me curious..

So, with this in mind, I was not thinking about feeding with live small fish or shellfish, but more like minced artic prawns, or canned crab meat.

Maybe I could sum up my question to this:
Why cant beardies eat canned crab meat ?
AreG
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:57 am

AreG wrote:Thanx for the links and added insight, I really like this kind of info as I feel it aids a better understanding of the enviroment these animals comes from :-D

Originally my idea, was to make frozen food for my beardie, as a backup in case I was not able to feed it live insects for shorter periodes. While investigating this option, it came to my understanding that this is not an alternative, and that the only good source for proteins is live insects.
I absolutely respect that, but it left me curious..

So, with this in mind, I was not thinking about feeding with live small fish or shellfish, but more like minced artic prawns, or canned crab meat.

Maybe I could sum up my question to this:
Why cant beardies eat canned crab meat ?


because their human slave will get to the can of crab meat first and eat it all on sandwiches . (Well , this human would :) )
But realistically, canned crab meat is cooked and has preservatives added , so it's not raw meat and has stuff added that will likely have undesireable effects on the dragon's health . Not worth the risk.

If you want a good backup , get some Repashi GrubPie to keep in the pantry as your emergency protein source for your dragon.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : , Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Gutzy (F) rescued 27Sep19 - RIP 3Aug20 (est 12 yo), Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby AreG » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:37 am

Thanx again for ansver.
I live on the west coast of Norway, and can get my hands on as much raw fresh unpolluted crab I could possible desire.. will this change the equation? or are there undesirable substances in the crab meat itself ? Do anyone know about any recearch done on this?

Kingofnobbys wrote:so it's not raw meat and has stuff added that will likely have undesireable effects on the dragon's health . Not worth the risk.

If you want a good backup , get some Repashi GrubPie to keep in the pantry as your emergency protein source for your dragon.


Rephasy homepage wrote: Grub Pie INGREDIENTS: Black Soldier Fly Larvae Meal, Dried Seaweed Meal, Coconut Meal, Ground Flaxseed, Stabilized Rice Bran, Dried Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Locust Bean Gum, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, Salt, Taurine, Watermelon, RoseHips, Hibiscus Flower, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower, Paprika, Turmeric, Salt, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (as preservatives), Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Manganese Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Copper Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Selenium Yeast. Vitamins: (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, L-Ascorbyl-Polyphosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex).


To be honest, it kind of looks like the grub pie allso have some stuff added?
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:01 am

AreG wrote:Thanx again for ansver.
I live on the west coast of Norway, and can get my hands on as much raw fresh unpolluted crab I could possible desire.. will this change the equation? or are there undesirable substances in the crab meat itself ? Do anyone know about any recearch done on this?

Kingofnobbys wrote:so it's not raw meat and has stuff added that will likely have undesireable effects on the dragon's health . Not worth the risk.

If you want a good backup , get some Repashi GrubPie to keep in the pantry as your emergency protein source for your dragon.


Rephasy homepage wrote: Grub Pie INGREDIENTS: Black Soldier Fly Larvae Meal, Dried Seaweed Meal, Coconut Meal, Ground Flaxseed, Stabilized Rice Bran, Dried Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Locust Bean Gum, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Citrate, Salt, Taurine, Watermelon, RoseHips, Hibiscus Flower, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower, Paprika, Turmeric, Salt, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (as preservatives), Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Manganese Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Copper Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Selenium Yeast. Vitamins: (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, L-Ascorbyl-Polyphosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex).


To be honest, it kind of looks like the grub pie allso have some stuff added?


Likely, but it's developed specifically as food for lizards and there are people who have to use GrubPie as their reptile's primary food source (like in NZ where crickets can cost $1 each).

I'd check the Ca/P ratio of the crab meat, as well as the nutrition content and see how good a match this is for the Bearded Dragon Food Pyramid , see viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : , Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Gutzy (F) rescued 27Sep19 - RIP 3Aug20 (est 12 yo), Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby AreG » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:38 am

Thank you!
This food pyramide is by far the best explanation for feeding I have ever seen :D
AreG
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:45 am

AreG wrote:Thank you!
This food pyramide is by far the best explanation for feeding I have ever seen :D


I've stumbled across it a few times over the years , and it's strange that it's not a sticky here.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : , Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Gutzy (F) rescued 27Sep19 - RIP 3Aug20 (est 12 yo), Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
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Re: Why is seafood bad for beardies?

Postby Savora » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:48 am

I've had my friends feed my beardie some Repashy Grub Pie when I went on vacation, as it was easier for them and bugs tend to get people squeamish. I also feed it to her if I slack and have a day or two before I can get more Phoenix worms. I think it's great, Cactus loves the stuff, and it's comparatively really healthy when it comes to bug alternatives. I would trust Grub Pie more than seafood, but I admittedly am not an animal health nutritionist, so :lol:
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