Dusted crickets and Phoenix Worms too much Calcium?

I have a question about phoenix worms.

I know they are a great staple and are loaded with calcium and don't need to be dusted. But how does that change the weekly schedule for dusting crickets?

I have a 4-5month old scaley baby who devours crickets...usually 20-30 in the morning and 20-30 at night. Yeah...so it was getting kinda expensive and I also wanted to add a little variety to his diet, so I ordered some Phoenix Worms and Tashi LOVES them! Took about 2 days before he started glass dancing at the little black container the way he does with the cricket keeper! LOL! So before the PW's, I stuck to the dusting schedule of Calcium dusting at one feeding per day 5x a week, and then the other 2 days I would dust with vitamins (Herptivite) for one meal per day. Now with the addition of the PW's, I'm wondering what, if anything, I need to adjust. I don't want to overdose him with calcium. He was sick when we first got him from calcium DEficiency so I don't want to pitch ourselves to the other side of the teeter-totter! He also eats his greens pretty well, although will dig through the "greens" to pick out the red cabbage and the butternut squash, or occasional cantaloupe, strawberries or red pepper! Stinker!

Oh...and as for lighting/heating, we have a 125w Mercury Vapor Bulb which we determined was pretty useless in terms of UVB, so we mainly use that for basking light on the warm side. Then when he was sick we had added a ReptiSun 10.0 compact bulb for extra UVB. I know it isn't the tube, (although that is what I thought I was buying when I purchased it! Grrr!) but we are using it in addition to the MVB bulb for UVB until we move Tashi to a bigger tank and then we will get the mounted "tube" bulb in there. He seems content now, and is very active and seems happy.

Any advice? Thanks in advance!

~Jill

I wish I had an answer for you. I've been wondering the same thing. I feed my beardie Phoenix Worms as a staple, supplemented w/butterworms (which he LOVES) and canned crickets mixed w/his salad. (I know the canned insects aren't a popular choice w/most people on this site, but that's literally the only way I can get him to eat ANY vegetables at all.) I've been putting a drop or two of liquid calcium without D3 on his crickets, but not dusting the PWs or the butters. As I understand it, crickets are high in phosphorus and dusting them balances out the phosphorus-to-calcium ratio, but because PWs and butters have a good balance, there's no need to dust. However, I've looked through all of my books on beardie care and all through this website and can't find any info about just how much calcium is too much, just that there is such a thing as too much calcium. *sigh

I posted more or less the same message on the "Feeders" board and one person said that there is a trick to help you tell if they are getting too much calcium...check this out!

They said that if the urates (white part) of their poo is more yellow or anything other than pure white, then they are getting too much calcium. Also if the urates are chalky or hard, that can mean too much calcium. (That can also mean dehydration too, but I give Tashi a bath every other day or so, so I know he isn't dehydrated.) Tashi poops at least once a day, sometimes twice, and is on his 3rd shed since we got him 3 months ago! He's such a chow hound! Must be doing something right I guess!

The other poster also gave the advice to just balance it out a bit. If they are eating PW's as a regular staple, and dusted crickets here and there too, then maybe calcium dust only 3 days a week and keep vitamin dusting as normal. But pretty much just watch the poo/urates and adjust as necessary. Wouldn't it be great if there were other little tricks like this to help us monitor their health? Sure beats a trip to the vet all the time!

Hope this helps a little bit!
~Jill

When you are giving calcium it's not so much the amount you are giving it that is could be dangerous, it's the ratio. The ratio of calcium to phosphorous has to be around 2:1, 1.5:1 or 1:1. At these ratio the body can excrete the excess very efficiently without causing harm. However, it becomes a problem when the ratio of calcium is greater than 2... That means that there is not enough phosphorous and this can cause the mineralizatin and calcification of the soft tissue. The Phoenix Worms have the right ratio of calcium to phosphorous so I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't try dusting them with calcium either for this reason.

Having said that, when you are dusting with the regular calcium powder you are guessing that you are getting the ratio right. the only sure way to determine this is through a blood test. that is why I use Calcium Plus. It is designed to boost and round out the nutritional value of live feeders that is available. No guess work and easy as pie; and it's safe.

Thanks for the info! That tip about the urates is incredibly helpful. Now that I know what to look for, I'm a lot less paranoid about George OD'ing on calcium.

Paradon":2pbwk9zw said:

When you are giving calcium it's not so much the amount you are giving it that is could be dangerous, it's the ratio. The ratio of calcium to phosphorous has to be around 2:1, 1.5:1 or 1:1. At these ratio the body can excrete the excess very efficiently without causing harm. However, it becomes a problem when the ratio of calcium is greater than 2... That means that there is not enough phosphorous and this can cause the mineralizatin and calcification of the soft tissue. The Phoenix Worms have the right ratio of calcium to phosphorous so I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't try dusting them with calcium either for this reason.

Having said that, when you are dusting with the regular calcium powder you are guessing that you are getting the ratio right. the only sure way to determine this is through a blood test. that is why I use Calcium Plus. It is designed to boost and round out the nutritional value of live feeders that is available. No guess work and easy as pie; and it's safe.

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That makes sense. I definitely don't dust the phoenix worms. But say I feed crickets in the morning and phoenix worms at night. Should I NOT dust the crickets with calcium then because of the calcium he'll be getting with the phoenix worms? I know the calciumhosporus ratio in the PW's are excellent, and I still dust with vitamins (Herptivite) 2x a week. Is "Calcium Plus" a brand name? I use the Flukers Calcium with D3. Is that the same thing? Thanks for your response!

~Jill

Yes, Calcium Plus is a brand name. But it is not made by Fluker. You can order it here: http://www.store.repashy.com/repashy-superfoods/retail/all-in-one-supplements-en-2/

And If I was feeding anything else besides the Phoenix worms, I would dust it with calcium, yes. Crickets and other inverts are actually have a lot of phosphorous, so you need a pinch of calcium to get the ratio right, but you are still only guessing. The only sure way to determine if you are giving the right amount of calcium is with a blood test. That's why I use Calcium Plus.