Bearded dragon not eating greens and sleeping most the day

Hi all, a bit concerned about my beardie Bella. For the past couple months she has been pretty inactive, refusing to eat anything green ( or any colour for that matter ). I come home from work at 6pm and she is sleeping under her tree. She will eat a few crickets every couple days then gets bored, bask for half hour then bugger off to bed again. I don't think she is brumating because she has never done this before and nor did my previous dragon.

she's about 4 years old. her viv is 4ft by 2 ft by 2ft. 100w basking bulb and a t5 30w arcadia uvb tube (30") with reflector. Her basking temp (basking spot not air temp) is about 39-41 degrees c and cool side varies between 25 and 28 (air temp).

she is fed daily fresh rocket, bell pepper and carrot (shavings, she used to be attracted to the colour orange). vitiman dusting as well as calcium with d3.

bathed once or twice a week to encourage nature. she rarely goes in the viv anymore but that's because she isn't eating anything or active enough to let it out.

my worries are:
- is she Brumating
- the food will rot in her belly if she doesn't go (when and if she eats)
- screw that, she isn't eating anyway! apart from a few crickets with dusting
- she used to eat morio worms daily but I have recently stopped that because I don't like the idea of then as a staple
- her uvb was replaced 2 weeks ago from a t8 to t5 she was active for a day or 2 then back to sleepy dragon

I can't think of anything I've missed but would really appreciate some advice. I don't like to see her like this if it isn't a form of brumation. my last beardy died of MBD so I am very paranoid and trying to ensure she gets everything she needs.

thanks guys
Dan

It sounds like she is in some level of brumation. It seems like a lot more of them have gone into brumation this year than I've seen in the past. They all brumate a bit differently with varying degrees of sleepiness. If she's down for a few days then up again for a day or two that's not too unusual. My guy is on about a 1 week down and 1 day up routine (ish). I've offered little bits of food but mostly water. The food eventually passes through, everything is just on a much slower schedule with the decreased metabolism.

I would weigh her once or twice per week to ensure she is staying relatively stable. Don't want to see a huge dropoff in weight but 20g here or there isn't a big deal. Offer drops of water on her nose so she can lick them up if she's thirsty. Other than that I'd let her be if everything else is OK.

Thanks CooperDragon, I do spray her bottle ever so lightly on her nose every night which she laps up. She always seems so thirsty. It's very unusual if she is going through some form of brumation because the viv is within normal temps throughout the year, it is odd they know when Winter is here. Especially in the UK when it is winter 364 days of the year.

Weighing her is good advice, thank you! Didn't think of that. She just looks so lethargic and incredibly monged out.

She has Uv, she has a heat gradient, she gets some calci dust and vits when she wants to eat the crickets, she gets water when I can. I do leave her fresh water everyday as well not that she touches it. I know they cant see standing water but I think it makes me feel better knowing its there.

Anybody else experiencing this? A dragon that doesn't usually brumate showing these symptoms?

CooperDragon":zd27sm9j said:

It sounds like she is in some level of brumation. It seems like a lot more of them have gone into brumation this year than I've seen in the past. They all brumate a bit differently with varying degrees of sleepiness. If she's down for a few days then up again for a day or two that's not too unusual. My guy is on about a 1 week down and 1 day up routine (ish). I've offered little bits of food but mostly water. The food eventually passes through, everything is just on a much slower schedule with the decreased metabolism.

I would weigh her once or twice per week to ensure she is staying relatively stable. Don't want to see a huge dropoff in weight but 20g here or there isn't a big deal. Offer drops of water on her nose so she can lick them up if she's thirsty. Other than that I'd let her be if everything else is OK.

Click to expand...

When Bella does have a bowel movement, is it solid/well formed or is it liquidy/mushy with a particularly foul odor? If brumation isn’t the issue (and brumation is always a possibility with a dragon that age this time of year) then a lack of appetite and long-term lethargy can usually be narrowed down to one of three causes: illness/parasites, impaction, or lighting/UVB issues. Does she have a solid substrate? If not, impaction could be a potential factor. It would be great if you could post pics of your setup. Sometimes members have a keen eye for spotting the root of a husbandry issue when an owner can’t (not saying it’s an environment issue, but it never hurts to definitively rule that out). I also think it wouldn’t hurt to take Bella and a fecal sample to a herp vet to rule out parasites/coccidia/illness. During the examination a herp specialist can also point out visible issues like gout, MBD, determine if a female lizard is egg bound, etc. I take my lizards to a herp vet annually and do a full workup. One young beardie I adopted came to me with coccidia but we were able to diagnose and treat it right away and now she’s in the clear (and much more active and alert). I don’t think you’ll regret taking her to a herp vet—even if the vet determines it’s brumation you’ll have peace of mind that there’s nothing more serious developing and going untreated. While it does sound like brumation is very likely in this case, pics of Bella and her cage could help us cover all bases and rule out environmental issues.

PodunkKhaleesi":2kpcrwsc said:

When Bella does have a bowel movement, is it solid/well formed or is it liquidy/mushy with a particularly foul odor? If brumation isn’t the issue (and brumation is always a possibility with a dragon that age this time of year) then a lack of appetite and long-term lethargy can usually be narrowed down to one of three causes: illness/parasites, impaction, or lighting/UVB issues. Does she have a solid substrate? If not, impaction could be a potential factor. It would be great if you could post pics of your setup. Sometimes members have a keen eye for spotting the root of a husbandry issue when an owner can’t (not saying it’s an environment issue, but it never hurts to definitively rule that out). I also think it wouldn’t hurt to take Bella and a fecal sample to a herp vet to rule out parasites/coccidia/illness. During the examination a herp specialist can also point out visible issues like gout, MBD, determine if a female lizard is egg bound, etc. I take my lizards to a herp vet annually and do a full workup. One young beardie I adopted came to me with coccidia but we were able to diagnose and treat it right away and now she’s in the clear (and much more active and alert). I don’t think you’ll regret taking her to a herp vet—even if the vet determines it’s brumation you’ll have peace of mind that there’s nothing more serious developing and going untreated. While it does sound like brumation is very likely in this case, pics of Bella and her cage could help us cover all bases and rule out environmental issues.

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Thanks for all the info, certainly very helpful! bellas substrate is carpet tile on cool side and slate rock and vivarium flooring on the hot side. I haven't used substrate for couple years because my other beardie was always getting impacted.

Her bowel movements are normally well formed, her urate is pretty solid (chalk like). not sure if she is metabolising the calci dust very well or if this is normal?
I will get some pictures put on, I am away for work this evening but I will definitely upload pic's as the help is greatly appreciated.

as always, many thanks

There seems to be an abnormally large number of dragons going through this lately, not really a "brumation" per se, but rather like they are just "slowing down" a bit. I've never had a dragon go into even a partial brumation so I'm not the best judge of what is an actual brumation and what isn't, but there are just a ton of posts like this lately...

As far as her urates and the calcium, a "chalky" urate typically indicates a bit of dehydration, which is to be expected because she's not eating much, and they get most of their hydration from their food. So dripping some water on her snout several times a day is a good idea to help supplement her hydration until her appetite comes back, if she's willing to lick it off...

Usually when the Calcium intake is too high, their urates will show a pink/reddish tint. I don't think that has anything to due with the urates, I think she's just a bit dehydrated because she's eating less.

As far as worrying about MBD, it's a good thing that you upgraded to a T5 strength UVb tube, especially in a large, wooden enclosure. How far away from her Main Basking Spot is the UVB tube? Does the fixture have a Metal Reflector behind it? This is very important in a large, wooden enclosure, so that the UVB light get reflected throughout the living space. Also, do you have the enclosure set up so that both the UVB tube and the bright white basking bulb are both right alongside each other over top of the Hot Side of the tank, and so that her Main Basking Spot/Platform is directly underneath both lights, so she gets both at the same time, and within at least 11" of the UVB tube? And I'm assuming no obstructions covering the UVB tube, like mesh or a clear, plastic cover or anything (since it's on the inside of a wooden enclosure ceiling)? I'm just running through everything I can think of that could cause lethargy...

Basking Spot Surface Temperature checked with either an Infrared Gun or a Digital Probe Thermometer? Between 100-105 degree? Hot Side Ambient between 88-93 degrees, and Cool Side Ambient between 75-80 degrees?

The only other thing that we cannot help you determine is whether or not she may have a high count/load of parasites, like Coccidia or Pinworms. This is the other thing that can cause a lack of appetite (in at least moderate to high counts/loads, parasites in a low count/load typically do not cause a problem, depending on what parasite we're talking about)...if you check everything else out husbandry-wise and are still concerned, you may want to take a fecal sample to her Reptile Vet to get it tested for either parasites or a bacterial infection...