toe nails almoste gone

[lillahine]

Im worried that our beardie is in pain, he is always shaking his front feet and waving them in pain. We have had tile in his tank now for a few months now and several times a day he scratches at the tile to get out. His nails are so short to the point of you can see the pink. I have tried puttong soft blankets in there so he has padding but he pulls them up when he is scratching to get out. Has anyone elso had this problem? I am at a loss as of what to do with him, i know he wont stop digging to get out because thats all he wants to do he just wants to roam. Is there something i can domto help his little feet heal so hes not in so much pain? I dont think it makes any diffrence but he is 6 months old

 

[snazzyglasses]

Oh! Poor dear. I think usually if they want to come out and play they don't dig quite that much, but I could be wrong.
What brand/type of UVB are you using, and what are the temps in your tank? Also what are you using to measure the temps? Sometimes a dragon will dig to try and get away if the temps are too high or the UVB is sketchy. I don't have any ideas other than that though

 

[Lurhstaap]

... Why not just bring him out to play when he scratches? I'm not sure I understand why that's not the solution to this. Just take him out when he wants to be out and use that time to rearrange the padding. You could also try putting something heavy like rocks on the edges of the padding so he can't pull it up. How did his nails get so low in the first place? Just running on tile and scratching should not have done that.

 

[lillahine]

... Why not just bring him out to play when he scratches? I'm not sure I understand why that's not the solution to this. Just take him out when he wants to be out and use that time to rearrange the padding. You could also try putting something heavy like rocks on the edges of the padding so he can't pull it up. How did his nails get so low in the first place? Just running on tile and scratching should not have done that.

He does get out quite a bit but he wants to stay out. I wish i couod let him stay out more but i have 3 young kids. He digs and scratches at his tile like crazy thats why they are so short. His temps are fine and he has the right lights. He is just spoiled and wants to roam in the house and go outside.

 

[Lurhstaap]

Well, you know, even if you do have kids there's no reason he can't spend more time out of his cage. He doesn't need to be supervised every instant if you set up one room in the house to be 'lizard safe' and then shut him in there alone. If you make sure the kids aren't alone with him and any other pets can't get to him he ought to be just fine roaming around in there. And it's not hard to potty train them so they only go poo in their bath, too. I don't have children but I do have a -lot- of cats, yet my Sunset spends pretty much no time in his tank. His tank, in fact, has pretty much been converted into a cricket cage... I put them in there to be gutloaded, and then I put him in there to feed him the crix, but then I take him out when he's done and that's it. I have an out of tank basking and UV zone set up for him that can even be relocated pretty easily if I want to.

If you absolutely don't want to give him more out of tank time, though, then your only real option here is to give him a bigger tank and more things to do while in the tank so he doesn't feel so bored and desperate to get out. Honestly if he's scratching to the point of damaging himself he's not 'spoiled,' he's feeling deprived to the point of mental illness.I am not trying to attack you in saying so, just trying to let you know how bizarre and unusual that behavior is.

 

[snazzyglasses]

Hmm. If you're measuring those temps with something accurate like a digital thermometer w/ probe or a temp gun (no dials or stick-ons, since those things are crazy inaccurate), then maybe he is just spoiled? I don't think I've heard of that before, but I suppose there's a first time for everything!
(edited for grammar.... couldn't help it, lol )

 

[Lurhstaap]

Oh, yes, that's another thing I forgot to ask. How are you measuring the temperatures? And what UV lamp are you using? He must be either so starved for attention that he's willing to hurt himself with such repetitive behavior (which IMO is not mentally healthy behavior and shouldn't be brushed away with the pejorative description that he is "spoiled") or else he is desperately trying to escape something noxious in his tank. Period. If you care about your beardie please don't just brush this off as him being spoiled. If he were just spoiled he wouldn't be INJURING himself!

 

[lillahine]

.He gets plenty time out of his tank and he wont go to the bathroom in there he has to go outside of his tank on my hardwood floors . For anyone with kids you would know its not ar easy as just making sure the kids are not around my kids smother him and when he is out c ant leave him alone. As far as letting him have a room to roam once again i have kids and there isnt a room in the house that doesnt have toys around or kids. We have a digital prob thermom and i cant remember the brands of lights but they were the ones suggested here on this site. His uvb we got in mid july.

 

[Lurhstaap]

I don't have kids of my own but I remember being a kid well enough. And I know enough people with kids. I never said it would be -easy-, but it's definitely -possible- at least in theory. In your current situation, depending on the age of your kids and the size of your house, it genuinely might not be possible, but it was worth a suggestion.

Also, not pooping in the tank is totally normal.They're very smart and they do not like being near their own poo any more than humans do. But there's no need for him to do it on the floor! Are you bathing him regularly? If you're not, you should start doing that. Put him in a warm bath, not too deep but deep enough that his butt-end is underwater, for about half an hour every day or every other day (or at least as often as you can manage, realistically -- again, kids, I know.)

In all truth, I hate to say this, but if things with the kids are genuinely so uncontrollable then you might need to seriously consider rehoming your pet. You can't just leave him in this situation where he's ripping his feet apart. If a larger tank with new tank toys for him doesn't work, and you can't find a way to arrange things so he can have more out of tank time (Do you have a yard? What's the weather like there? Is an outdoor enclosure possible at least part of the year? That might help a lot.) Then it might be best for everyone if you found a new home for him, at least until your kids are old enough to be taught how to interact with him less aggressively. Reading between the lines it sounds like not just three kids, but three YOUNG kids. As nice a pet as beardies are, they do require time and attention, and, in all honesty, it's sounding to me like you might not have enough to spare for him. This doesn't make you a bad person or something, but it does mean that you should consider the situation objectively and try to make the best decisions for both his welfare and your own. After all, it's not good for you to be worrying about him and upsetting yourself trying to see to both his needs and your kids' and your own all at once (plus those of any other important people and animals that may be in your life.) It may also be possible to arrange to surrender him only temporarily, until, like I said before, your kids are older and more controllable and your life is generally more in a place where it's possible for him to spend more of his time out of his tank than is currently possible for you.

Good luck with this! This is a VERY sad situation to be in. I would hate to be in your shoes right now. I'd feel like I was being forced to pick between my three human kids and my lizard kid. But in the end you have to do what's best for everyone involved... the lizard, the kids, and you. Don't make a snap decision -- think about it for a while, and definitely wait and see what other people here have to say because I'm definitely not the absolute authority on this stuff. But IMO you need to at least consider the possibility that you just aren't in a point in your life where you can keep a beardie, or at least not this particular beardie.

If you do decide you can't keep him, you should post here on the for sale, free, or rescue forums. I'm sure there's someone here who would be willing to take him. (Heck, if you happen to live near me, I would! He sounds very much like my current dragon, who also doesn't like spending much time in his tank.)

 

[lillahine]

I never said i didnt have time for him. I did say he gets plenty of out of tank time. He does get the proper care he needs regardless if inhad kidsor not. He is spoiled x100 and gets more than what he needs. I was just simply looking for some info/help not looking to be attacked and hear how im neglecting him because he cant have his own room. I dont know what you do but i cant let him out all day to jus roam. We are good owners and its not your place to tell us were not just by a posts i made. Obviously we care about him thats why we were trying to get help here in the first place.

 

[lillahine]

And no i will not get rid of him he is part of our family just like my kids are

 

[Lurhstaap]

I wasn't attacking you at any time. I apologize for whatever words or phrases I used which caused you to interpret my words in that manner. It was not what I intended at all.

Nor was I saying you were neglecting him because you can't give him his own room. That was one suggestion. I made several others, such as giving him a larger tank with more things in it so he has more to do while he's in there and doesn't feel the need to claw so much. I also asked what the climate and weather is like in your area and suggested making him an outdoor enclosure if the climate and weather are appropriate which he could spend some time in at least part of the year.

Obviously you are giving him attention and doing your best to take care of him. However, if he were happy, then he wouldn't be clawing to the point of destroying his toenails. That's just a fact and I'm NOT attacking you in pointing it out! I am trying to give you several possible ways to help him stop doing that to himself, but what I was trying to say is that if you can't find ANYTHING that works, and he's STILL ripping himself apart after you've tried all of my suggestions which are possible for you, PLUS those which any other members of this forum may come along and offer, THEN you might be forced to consider whether this particular dragon requires more attention and out-of-cage time then you are realistically able to supply at this time in your life. That is ALL I was trying to say.

Like I said in my last post, quote, "Good luck with this! This is a VERY sad situation to be in. I would hate to be in your shoes right now. I'd feel like I was being forced to pick between my three human kids and my lizard kid. But in the end you have to do what's best for everyone involved... the lizard, the kids, and you. Don't make a snap decision -- think about it for a while, and definitely wait and see what other people here have to say because I'm definitely not the absolute authority on this stuff."

Once again, I am sorry you feel attacked, and that was not my intention... but you would do well not to reject information you don't want to hear by perceiving it as someone attacking you and belittling you. That is not what is happening here.

EDIT: I thought of another couple of ideas. Are the tiles in his cage permanently set in? If not, you could try removing them altogether and switching to a softer substrate such as newspaper or paper towels or reptile carpet. If he doesn't already have one (and I'm guessing he doesn't because he's digging at the tile, but I could of course be wrong) you might try supplying him with a digging area. I've read that the safest thing to do is to take a plastic container like a Tupperware dish large enough for him to fit in and fill it with something like alfalfa pellets (not sand or anything that could cause impaction!) If he really, really wants to dig, he can do so in there as much as he likes without hurting himself.

Oh! And just as I was typing another possibility occurred to me. Are you CERTAIN of this lizard's sex? Could it possibly be female and gravid with an infertile clutch? Even if they have never been exposed to a male or any other lizards females sometimes can become pregnant with infertile eggs and then need to lay them. Obsessive digging is one of the signs. I wish I had thought of this sooner because this may be the answer to your problem if you aren't 100% sure he's a boy.

Finally, as far as healing his (or her?) toes are concerned, the reason I'm focusing on getting him to stop scratching is because no healing can take place until the damage stops being done. That's just unavoidable, unfortunately. But you can at least help by bathing him as often as realistically possible with a solution of Pedialyte in the water... I forget exactly how much to use, someone with more experience help me out here? In the Beardie ER and Health forums there are several threads about beardies who are injured -- many of the suggestions in those threads involving soaking and topical ointments and remedies would likely be relevant to your dragon's feet.

Believe me, I understand why you don't want to give your dragon up. That should definitely be the absolute last option you consider. I was just trying to point out that, at some point, it might have to be considered. But for now there's still a WHOLE lot more you can try before you even have to think about that.

 

[snazzyglasses]

I think it may be important to remember that while a person may not mean to sound attacking and accusatory, it is quite easy for the person on the receiving end to feel attacked/accused. Especially on the internet where there aren't things like voice inflection to soften our words. So, ya know. Let's all think twice before posting and be careful with word choices and such. :wink:

 

[Lurhstaap]

Believe me, I always try to do so. That's why I emphasized that I understand how they feel. But I feel like they zeroed in on a few things and ignored the rest. It's VERY difficult to predict how people will read and react to things. (Honestly I don't find that the internet is any worse or harder than real life... not everyone interprets body language or tone of voice the same way either! That's been a problem for me offline, too. x.x) I've done my best, but I can only control myself and how I express my ideas, not how those ideas themselves are accepted by the listener or whether the entire message is even received.

 

[lillahine]

Im sorry im just frustrated, as much time as he spends out he still goes crazy scratching even after he goes to the bathroom. Its hard seeing him digging scratching at the tile knowing he is hurting himself. He gets a bath every day since he wont drink water but they are short since he hates them. We took him in a few months ago to get him sexed and they were pretty sure fluffy is a boy. I live in colorado so i cant really get him outside now as the weather is getting cold. I do take him outside every other day for 30 mins though and he sith on my leg and basks, i usually take him iinside as soon as he wants to get down to run around. I do let him sit at the front door to look out but after about 5 min he starts scrarching at the door to go outside. Lights out at 8 but he usually goes into his cave and just hangs out at about 6 lights are back on at 6 am and hubby gives him a salad and squash. About 7-8 i get him out to go potty and he runs around for about a half an hour. Than he gets either crickets, roaches or pheonex worms. You know what i jjust thought about this we have been out of worms for a few weeks now and he didnt really dig when he was getting them. He was getting about 40 worms twice a day with either roaches or crickets. Hmm wwonder if that might be a reason usually with the worms he was fine.