question on the care page

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smergy

Hatchling Member
hey guys I just got this little guy from petsmart two days ago, hes fine but i also got a bearded dragon starter kit that came with the lights, 20gal tank and food/water dishes and lastly it came with some kind of orange sand, well the lights tank and dishes are not what conserns me its that on the care page it says never to use sand for little dragons; should i get something else? or am i ok with what i got?
 

Ashpd2006

Member
Hi,

I'm a newbie here as well, but from most of info I've found, those "setup kits" they sell are pretty worthless. They have the wrong bulbs, and they are way over priced. The general consensus is to keep young beardies on either paper towels/newspaper, tile or reptile carpet. They could injest sand while eating and that could lead to impaction.

This is a wonderful site, I'm sure a more experienced owner will chime in :D
 

Zeusmybeardie

Gray-bearded Member
Ya the bulbs are completely wrong and anything they told u is probably as well your basking bulb can be a regular household bulb just not the coils ur UVB needs to be a reptisun 10.0 flourscent tube yes no sand tile repti carpet paper towel or news paper u should be feeding him as much as he can eat in 10mins 2x a day and u should be dusting the Crix 5x a week with calcium d3 and 2x with vitamins once a day and offering fresh greens everyday here's a good link http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html
 

blue11

Sub-Adult Member
hi :)
*le sigh*
up, usually the kits are so wrong.
like the other posters said, i would not house our baby or adult or any sized/age dragon on sand or any loose substrate. you want a solid substrate -
paper towels
newspaper
tile ( i use tile that Lowe's cut for me and it DIVINE! cleaning is a cinch and it there for life! im ALL for tile!)
repti-carpet (i find this harder to keep clean, but alot of people like it)
linoleum
non adhesive shelf paper/liner

really even bare glass when it comes down to the nitty gritty it better than sand/walnut/wood chips/etc. they can ingest any loose substrate, and become impacted, which can lead to death or injury. sand really harbors bacteria, and is kind of the same as living in a litter box. yes you can get the poop out, but everything else soaks down into the sand an is pretty unhealthy, an it can also cause respiratory problems (etc etc)

basically what you are going to need is two bulbs -
one for heat
one for UVB

i use a household bulb for heat with both my beardies. i measure there basking temps with a temp gun, but thermomters with a probe on the end that you can place directly on the basking spo, where they literally will be sitting/lying to bask, are awesome. that is how you want to measure your temps, and for a baby, i would aim for a nice steady 100 - 105 ... some people go a bit higher with babies, up to 110. its a matter of what you and your beardie are comfortable with. a delicate little dance it is.
i usually has BlueBelles at about 105 when she was that age.

the UVB bulb she be linear and long, like a tube. not a coil. coils out out patchy and odd UVB, and have been known to cause eyes problems, improper UVB output etc etc etc.
grab you up either a ReptiSun 10.0 tube ( they come in 18, 24, 36, 48 inches) or an Arcadia 12% tube, which are now available in the USA! wooT!! :D

if you can, mount in on the inside of the tank. or, if you have a screen on top, just cut a strip out of the screen where the UVB bulb is lying, and that way its totally unfiltered light :)
they dont produce much heat at all, very very little.
but oh so important!!!! gotta have that artificial sunshine for all basic functions.

water and hydration - i never kept a water bowl in my tanks. it creates humidity and gets icky. and they poop in it alot. warm water soaks are the best way to keep your little one hydrates, they take in the water from there vents. where they poop from :shock: :)
they wil also get water from food and greens, but DONT flip if your baby shows no interest in greens (collards, mustard greens, dandelion greens, arugula, endive, escarole) no lettuce :) heck im STILL trying to get my 1 year old beardie to eat more greens. she is stubborn head :lol: but she is is showing more interest.
rule of thumb -
babies/juvies: 80% protein, 20% greens
adults: 80% greens, 20% protein

now doesn't always happen that way, lol, but it gives you a really good idea of there diet.

feeders are super important right now. for babies, yup the "pinhead" crickets are what so many people use. you can get them in large quantities and FAR cheaper than the pet store. plus you dont have to keep going back all the time. like every other day ha!
i dont use crickets, i use roaches (sounds horrifying an scary, teehee, its not, i promise. you will get realllly used to them) as my main staple for food ... for a baby you could get the extra small nymphs. they are tiny an really great for you baby.

phoenix worms are another smash hit ... they are loaded with calcium, and you can leave them in a bowl for the day, they cant get out. roaches, especially that tiny of a roach (dubia) can climb smooth surfaces either. the larger one can hoist themselves out of a slick dish, but not the baby little ones ... no worries there.

and your baby, when he/she has the right temps an the right lighting and everything spot on, will be HUNGRYYYYYYYYYYY.
dont worry, feeding becomes MUCH LESS expenisive and time consuming when they become adults!!! right now they will just eat eat eat eat. nom nom nom.

and you do want to dust your feeders with vitamin powder and calcium powder. i never dusted my phoenix worms with calcium as they are packed FULL of it. but everyone does things different ways. i could have been wrong in that aspect, but phoenix's, they just naturally have so much calcium in them. they are easy to keep and so are roaches :)
soft bodies worms like silkworms, small butterworms, baby hornworms, are all great feeders for a baby/juvie.

all of these things you can google and get online :)

what is your babies name? i hope this helped, everyone is giving you good advice :)
if i missed anything, which im sure i did, ask away, thats what we are all here for :)
~Em
 

mommisgurl

Juvie Member
Couldn't of said it better myself Em :) Everything you covered was to the t.!
I even have a quick q..how long did it take for your colony to be strong enough to eat out of.? I just got one last week,and I've seen one female have an egg sack..but I'm a tad bit scared to move the egg crates..the big males and females scare the crap outta me :roll: :lol:
And one more..how do you get the right sized ones outta the bin.?? I've always just thought I could treat them like I would crickets and just lift up the egg crates and shake them into my feeding container..but like I said..the huge males and females scare me half to death.! :banghead: haha
 

Ashpd2006

Member
I just bought my dubia colony and I am absolutely petrified of the adults!!! I have no clue how I am going to go in to get babies once they are producing...gah!!! Lol
 

smergy

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
well thanks em, I did take him off the sand yesterday when i came home, gave him like 3 more crickets and put craft paper down for him and it was ok, but on a sad note this morning i went to feed him the normal 5 in the AM i have been doing since i got him sunday but all he did was sleep on his stick, no real movement at all :cry: my wife is going to some vet this afternoon to see if hes ok but I dont know yet, should I have not put the paper down? or was it the other 3 crickets i gave him yesterday, of course could it have been we bought okra, and some other greens and a kiwi and put all that in his cage but he didnt eat them, that is the only things i have changed.

on a side note em we measured him last night and from tip to tale he measureed about 6 inches so not sure if that helps on the age thing but thats all we know, and his name is Draco, but i hope i didnt do anything to make him sick from yesterday.
 

mommisgurl

Juvie Member
Haha so I'm not the only one xD my mom,dad,and brother always peek into the bin when they come into my room and make a gagging sound..They give all of us the heebie geebies lmao
Guess we will both find out how to do it when that time comes :banghead: :lol:
 

blue11

Sub-Adult Member
smergy":1pt6h721 said:
well thanks em, I did take him off the sand yesterday when i came home, gave him like 3 more crickets and put craft paper down for him and it was ok, but on a sad note this morning i went to feed him the normal 5 in the AM i have been doing since i got him sunday but all he did was sleep on his stick, no real movement at all :cry: my wife is going to some vet this afternoon to see if hes ok but I dont know yet, should I have not put the paper down? or was it the other 3 crickets i gave him yesterday, of course could it have been we bought okra, and some other greens and a kiwi and put all that in his cage but he didnt eat them, that is the only things i have changed. on a side note em we measured him last night and from tip to tale he measureed about 6 inches so not sure if that helps on the age thing but thats all we know, and his name is Draco, but i hope i didnt do anything to make him sick from yesterday.

oh not at all, you did the right thing putting the paper towels down. and even a change like that can cause some stress on them, so if he is mopy or seems blah, that can really be normal, when changes happen. sometimes ANY change even the teeniest change stresss som beardies out, and others not so much.
but this is all new for him, he just came home really, so keep that in mind ... its like trying to get used to a new house and neighbors and sounds when you move, ya know, its a little bit of a shocker, and it takes some time to get adjusted.

it probably took BlueBelle about a few weeks to get settled in when i brought her home as a baby. you always gotta remember, he is only been there a few days, so he will probably display some weird signs, hiding, being skittish, all that beardie stuff that worries us to pieces. i think they do it on purpose ;)
they know we will jump to their needs teehee.

but YES a vet visit is ALWAYS a great idea, i think every animal should be seem by a vet for an overall exam. no matter what kind or breed or species.
i hope that you have a good herp vet/exotic vet near you, that is who you want to take your little dude too. they are expirienced in reptiles, and if you get a good one, which i had to shop around for a good one, you will be SO happy and feel better about your babies health in general.
but even going to the vet, especially for a new baby that is just in the home for 3 or 4 days, will be stressfull too. they are fast, skittish, and jumpers too!! so keep an eye out for that big time :)
the adults, much easier to crowd control, lol.

i wouldnt be freaking out, dont you worry its ok!!! you didnt do anything to make him sick. i cant see anything you have done wrong ... honestly it could be ANYTHING from the wrong lights, wrong temps, new home, new people, possible some parasites, i mean if he is sick then the vet will know, its endless really.
your litte guy is probably just getting used to his new life.
oh side note ... dont leave crickets in the tank if you are feeding in the tank. they can and will bite your beardie, and having them in there when they are not eating them can be a big stressor.

once you get the right lighting, temps, temp gradient (hot side/cool side) and the right healthy feeders, he will get more and more amd more used to not only his new surroundings but to you as well.
i raisd BlueBelle from a baby, so i speak from expirience, it was task to raise a baby BUT SO WORTH IT!!!!! to watch them grow and grow AND GROWWWWW, is awesome.

kiwi is a little acidic, but if he LIKES it, then sure, as a once in a while thing while he is baby then by all means. i wish BlueBelle like SOME kind of fruit. bahhhhhh.
fruit is not really an essential part of their diet. some beardies love fruit! some dont. (aka BlueBelle)

so you have like three main focal points right now:
linear reptiSun or Arcadia bulb (100% essential for EVERYTHING)

temp gun or digital thermometer with a probe to measure exact temps (its SO important and effect behavior BIG TIME! you wont know if he is overheating or underheated until you get wither a temp gun or a digital therm with a probe)


GOOD PROTEIN (extra small roaches, small butterworms, phoenix worms, they so also seel the extra small/small super worms on the Mulberry Farms website, supers are fatty, however i do feed them to Blue, i mean, as long as they are getting a leaner staple and supers not constantly. that is topic up for debate, some people will agree with and some wont, in retro-spect, i wish i wouldnt have raised Blue on pretty much supers before i switched to roaches. but they are really an easy feeder so the convience of supers is beyond awesome.
you dont want ANYTHING big at this point, when you order, order extra small or small for your baby


i just a shipment of small nymph roaches, and they are so tiny! and they werent even the smallest i available! these were the second size up. i got them for my rescue beardie Lexi, and they are perfect for her. Butterworms are SOOOOOOOOO easy to keep and so are PHOENIX worms. and GREAT feeders. Supers are way easy to keep too. WAY easy.

Blue eats the bigger roaches (LOL!!! yall are cracking me up, i will have to tell you my "first ever shipment of roaches" horror story. lol.
if someoen had a camera in my house they would have made SOOOOOO much money off that video. it was hilarious in hind sight. mwahahahahahahaha.
BUT, im so used to them now, that even the big ones i just have to think of as large pill bugs or rolly polly's. i NEVER thought i would be able to handle dubia, but its like whatever now, grab a few and feed. once you think of them as NOT the roaches you think of when you think "dirty house raoches" ... you start to think, oh, this isnt that bad.
i think with any feeder or bug that is alive is gonna give most humans heebie jeebies, its totally natural!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mommisgurl":1pt6h721 said:
Couldn't of said it better myself Em :) Everything you covered was to the t.!
I even have a quick q..how long did it take for your colony to be strong enough to eat out of.? I just got one last week,and I've seen one female have an egg sack..but I'm a tad bit scared to move the egg crates..the big males and females scare the crap outta me :roll: :lol:
And one more..how do you get the right sized ones outta the bin.?? I've always just thought I could treat them like I would crickets and just lift up the egg crates and shake them into my feeding container..but like I said..the huge males and females scare me half to death.! :banghead: haha

yo be honest with ya, i SUCK at colonies. i just mix males and females together, and suddenly i have babies. i guess im not your "colony set-up" role model ha!!! nature somehow just takes it course. i feed them collards, mustard greens, fruit, potatoes. and they just, breed and flourish. the more time i used to put into starting a tip top colony, they less succesful i was!!! and honestly, i just reach down and grab some ... they ar really great about sticking strong to the egg crates, shaking them off, at least for me, isnt easy. you can always use long tongs, they works great, but i have gotten to the point now where i just pick them up and put them in a container to carry upstairs to Blue. they dont bite (supers BITE!!!) and they are so harmless.
its just the whole IDEA of it that is :puke: and ewwwwwww and ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh run away!!! teeheheheheeeee.
just DIVE ON IN and take charge! they are non-biting pill bug. say that over and over and over again.
and you CAN DO IT!!!!! and remember, you 1000000 times bigger than them, push through the fear and CONQUER THE ROACH WORLD!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Ashpd2006":1pt6h721 said:
I just bought my dubia colony and I am absolutely petrified of the adults!!! I have no clue how I am going to go in to get babies once they are producing...gah!!! Lol
you gotta get in that frame of mind that they are totally harmless and you rule them, not the other way around. i know its freaky at first but you can do it!!!! i know you can!!!!! i think we all go through this with roaches. these days, id rather pick up a large roach than a large super, ive been but those things a few times. i still pick them up but im like ... dont you dare dude!!! and cricktes too! little jumping biters. blah .... but again, take charge!!! be brave! :) :) :) i have FAITH IN YALL!!!

LOL ... oh the LOVELY WORLD OF LIVE FEEDERS!!!!
butters and phoenix are the least heebie jeebie and easiest keepers, but you cant get a colony going that i am aware of?
oh! a plus on butters, you can refriderate them, HELLO convient!!! and they are actually this really pretty bright orange yellow and red colour too. SO easy. pretty much everything is easy keeping to me except - silkworms (the mainteance), hornworms (the POOP and maintance) and crickets (jumpy smelly ickies).

eveyone is so different on what they can and cant handle! lol.

your baby shold be just fine ... DRACO!
do you have pics???
LOVE PICS!!!
~Em :)
we LOVE PICS!!!!
 

smergy

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
well thanks and yes you are right he is healthy except for some small parasite, however the vet gave my wife some advice said to take out that stupid red bulb and replace it with a head bulb, there is no light its just heat and also to feed it the crickets in a seperate container so we will be doing that, and the vet thinks cause of his size hes about 19 days old, and also the pet store gave us store credit for him because the vet said even if we get the other one there then we would be in the same boat, the vet thinks he got them from either the store or the breader. but all is ok wife is taking the Draco back to the vet tomorrow for his medicine to kill the parasite so we are all good, it just gave me a scare, i am a newbie when it comes to reptiles.

on a side note yes i have pictures and i would love to put them up but i am forum stupid and am not sure how to do it :cry:
 

YavannaV

Hatchling Member
Start a free photobucket account and copy/paste the IMG code onto your post here after you have uploaded pics there. :) Hope that helps.
 

blue11

Sub-Adult Member
well there ya have it ... some stress and some parasites ... sweet little Draco awww.
he will probably give a week long round of Panacur? mine is white liquid, i pull up the dosage in a syringe, then in mouth and down the hatch.
my rescue beardie Lexi (SHOUT OUT TO LEXI'S PEEP ON THIS THREAD!) Lexi says hi @mommisgurl
:shock: sorry about that.
but yes, she is on a five day course of Panacur right now.

make sure you try to have some food on their tummy before the Panacur dose, and if you HAVE some, you can always give him a little bit of plain SOY yogurt to help maintain the good bacteria in in his system because the Panacur can wipe it out.

he may seem a little mopey an down while on the meds ... and thats ok, that is normal. and then he will be better :mrgreen:

BeneBac (beneficial bacteria) is a great GREAT product to give when they are on anitbiotics, or sick, on a de-wormer, or coming out brumation.
the best i like is the gel, and both my beardies freakin LOVE it. Blue doenst like hardly ANYTHING. but she likes BeneBac. crazy girl. but what it does, is it replaces and gives the good flora back to their stomach that they need to be healthy, digest food and not have crazy tummy aches etc etc.
and yup it seems real tasty, thank goodness, makes it so much easier to give, they lick it off their noses like nobody's business.
Its a probiotic ... BeneBac you can buy online really cheap, an i think its a great thing to have on hand for your beardie just in general. always a good thing to have. you want the BeneBac for reptiles :) wondeful wonderful stuff to have on hand :)

i take probiotics, they are just darn good, healthy stuff.
here is what it looks like:
http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1795

and OH yes, if you a red blue or any other colour bulb toss it, sounds like ya already have! awesome!!!
bright white light for heat along side a quality linear UVB bulb for the day ... darkness at night :) just like us!

you can also place something soft like a tee shirt in there (an old one if you have it) that he can snuggle down into at night. temps can dip safely to 65, but being the summer i sure they wont, ours dont go below about 72 in the summer. If your house does get crazy cold, then you can buy a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE), they put off only heat, no light, for night time. but they do need a cool down period at night, and for a baby, if your house is staying at 70 and above at night, you are good :)

do both my beardies have their own blankets? GUILTY!!! teehee. everything and everyone needs a little warm and fuzzy safe place to go!!! teehee. its true! :) :) :)
and you he can stay happy and safe while oh so comfortable in your shirt or towel or blanket! sometimes they will go under it or burrow down into it. its really cute.
you are gonna have a great journey watching Draco grow, it will be ups and downs and worries and fun and fascinating and amazing all wrapped into one big ball of BEARDIE. ;)
19 days is so so so sooooooo young. Blue was a month old when i got her. those ages are just waaaaaaaaay too young to be selling in my opinion.

please keep us posted on Draco ok? hope everything goes smoothly and do keep us up to date!
~Em
 

Zeusmybeardie

Gray-bearded Member
Actually that's totally wrong they shouldn't be sold or even shipped till six weeks six inchs it was probably a local breeder got eggs made them an offer they couldn't refuse so he does have to feed a bunch of crazy hungry mouths btw be prepared cause once Draco gets his appetite back he will be eating lots and lots and lots of crickets lol
 

smergy

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
yea the wife said the vet told her he was way to young to be at a pet store, and they had 2 others in his cage the same length!! the vet said he is also a little under weight but its ok just feed him alot he said and that ceramic lamp that is what we put in replace of the red light for night, for some reason our house can get cold at night, i set the air on for about 77 but when the other day i turned off all the lights his cage got to 70 degrees so i think we need this at least for now, and yes as soon as i get the photo bucket of course i will :D
 
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