Norris lost weight -baby with eating issues

[Mirthy]

Hey folks,
I've been quietly freaking out today because Norris, who was already under weight has lost weight while I was away. I thought maybe putting down some of my thoughts might help me be a little less freakazoid around here and get some info to help my little booger who seems absolutely determined to shrink instead of grow.
background:
I've had Norris just shy of 7 weeks. He's from chain pet store and I don't know how old he was when I got him...think very little though.
ViV info:
29g for his babyhood eco reptile carpet floor, basking spot is 100-110/112 measured with a temp gun. his uvb is a reptisun 10. Hardest part has been his humidity which as been at about 50-55% on the cold side.

Norris is just between 7 1/4 and 71/2" his weight as of last night was 8 grams. His weight on the 14th was 10 grams. I've been keeping a food log for him almost since the beginning.
At the end of July we had an issue with Norris suddenly refusing food. Although he has obviously been eating again (and at times very well) he's very sporadic about his diet. In addition to the crickets, I offer him a mix of greens at his first meal which he mostly ignores though occasionally he will take one or three bites but really, that's about it. He is on the recommended dusting schedule for his age. He has had a few wax worms and a couple of phoenix worms but mostly because I stuck them in his mouth I can sometimes get him to lick baby food off his snout and tonight I gave him a few bites of bee pollen in hopes that it will get his appetite going again. Today was another no eat day. I'm going to list off his Aug food chart so you can either tell me it's normal or not for a baby. The first few days of Aug were the last days of his Afraid of food days after a cricket bite so the numbers are quite low.

AUG:
1 - 3cric 7 grams
2 - 9 cric
3 - 2 cric
4 - 16 cric 8 grams 6 1/2"
5 - 18 cric
6 - 6 cric 1 wax worm
7 - 7 cric and 7 pellets
8 - 11 cric 9 pellets 9 grams 5th week with us
9 - 19 cric 4 pellets 1 wax worm 10 grams 6 1/2"
10 - 16 cric 10 pellets 1 wax worm (maybe)
11 - no food -----------
12 - 25 cric 2 pellets
13 - 9 cric
14 - 23 cric 7" 10grams (seemed very close to 11)
15 - no cric 9 pellets (shedding)
16 - 8 cric 20 pellets
17 - 10 cric 20 pellets 8 grams 7 1/4 -1/2"

The pellets are a commercially prepared bearded dragon mix for dragons under 7" I took them out tonight because I think he started filling up on them and it -might- have something to do with the weight loss. I don't know? I'd been leaving them in the viv in small counted amounts of 20 so that if he really wanted to snack between meals he could. It seemed like a good idea since he is under weight. Now? They are out even though they seem to have a good amount of protein, etc to them.
Today Norris ignored his greens and crickets and his first two meals and at the last meal I was prepared with some bee pollen and baby food. I put baby food on his chin and shoved in the mini phoenix worms when he licked (4 of them) and then a couple of squished pinhead crickets. I also got him to lick off a couple bits of bee pollen but I wasn't sure how much to let him have? so today's entry looks like
18 - 6 parts of cricks 4 xs phoenix worms w/ bee pollen (because I made him) :?

obligatory poo comment:
He poos once a day like clockwork on his basking perch and it seems like it should though perhaps a little more moist but definitely still keeping it's shape.

Four days ago I really thought everything was going to be just fine but today I've been worried. Two grams is a heck of a lot of his total weight.

I was thinking about doing a fecal on him but after reading up it doesn't sound like he weighs enough (by a long shot) to go through treatment should he have any problems.

 

[MissT]

For being so little he doesnt seem to be eating a lot. Have you had a fecal test yet?

Also, perhaps you said but I missed it - what distance is the uvb at and what sort of fixture? Is it above a screen??? And what temp is the cool side? Sorry for all of the questions.....

 

[Mirthy]

hi there Christina,
I haven't done a fecal with Norris yet. I was all set out to grab his mid day offering today and gift it to our vet. I haven't seen this vet yet but I found one who deals with beardies when I got Norris and asked about office visits and fecal tests and the like so I have that info already. What stopped me is reading here that the treatments for parasites seem to all start with dragons at 50 grams? It really stopped me in my tracks. I was already worried to all get out because of how often dragons seem to lose weight while on medications and he frankly doesn't have any weight to lose. Norris still hasn't done his duty and I can always just get it done for peace of mind and knowing one way or the other. This vet only charges $39.

His uvb tube is in one of those Walmart jobs I found mentioned here. His basking tree gets a little on the close side to it if he really gets to the very top part he is 4" away. He usually is about 5" away. His cool side is 80.5 at this moment ( I really do like those guns ) though I've only seen him go over there a handful of times.

Even though he has places with appropriate baby basking temps, he usually prefers to be slightly lower on his basking branch at the 95-100 F mark. When I put him away after feeding him, I put him at the higher temp. area and he just makes his way to where he prefers. I tried moving the light, thinking he was partial to the other branch but then he picked another spot. I know, I'm micro analyzing but I'm sitting here waiting for him to poo...so...

EDIT: Oh, I meant to say, I've never seen him gasp in his tank. Everyone always talks about babies gasping to regulate their temps. Norris just seems to up and move before that point. The only time I've ever seen him gasp was outside, once. I took him out when it was about 95 and was sitting with him. Ground temps were over 100 already (He was on me, not the ground). I took him inside since we didn't have any shade. Just about an hour later the ground temp was over 125F ...viva Las Vegas.

 

[MissT]

Is it a reptisun tube??? The name of the bulb should be at the end of it?

 

[Mirthy]

yup, reptisun 10. lucky for me, I immediately found this site the same night I brought Norris home because the expert at the pet store didn't recommend a uvb bulb at all! Just a basking bulb and a night light (in Las Vegas...cuz it's so cold here in July) Really though I think she just forgot. She was very helpful otherwise but like I said...very very glad I found this site immediately! Ah Christina, thank you so much for trying to help Norris with so much going on right now. You are such a sweetie. I'm still waiting for his daily gift, shouldn't be too much longer.

Edit: tube, not coil. just to be clear

 

[MissT]

I think at this point a fecal is the best route- just to rule out a possible parasite issue. I hope he feels better soon!!!

 

[Mirthy]

Me too. I just want him to be a fat and sassy baby. His first feeding he ignored today. His first is usually his lightest and his most often ignored. I set him in his feeder tank and he pancaked and looked up and me like "Yeh, I'm not going to even pretend"

I am not sure what there is to do about it if it comes back with a high parasite count though? Can he even do reptaid at his weight? I know he is too small for the stronger stuff. It seems like even if it comes back positive my job is fatten him up to the point where he can go through the treatments? Gonna go check on him again and see if he is a giver yet.

 

[MissT]

How many bugs are in the feeder tank at a time. Try just putting 1 or 2 in at a time - he might be scared if there are too many!

 

[Mirthy]

You are right about that. He doesn't like more than one in at a time. I don't know if it is fear or just inability to focus but I have to drop them in one at a time. I try to vary things though when he gets finicky. Like dropping in a phoenix worm when he's ignoring a cricket or changing out for a different size. I did try adding a couple of pinheads today just to see if that extra movement would stimulate him but I just got the same look. I always add the food after him. Though I bag the crickets for dusting prior to putting him in and he always watches me do that from his viv. They need an emote with hair falling out.

 

[MissT]

Hmmm I was thinking that might be why he isn't eating. Hmmm strange... Have you tried leaving a small dish of worms in his viv?

 

[Mirthy]

I have tried leaving in both the extra small phoenix worms which he has pretty much ignored. My bad, I got too small but the area between his eyes is pretty small too! And I've tried with the wax worms as well. He ate three wax worms...once. and then once wax worm, maybe..I couldn't find it so I'm gonna call it a goner. But he has refused them after that. I've tried them in clear bowls so he can see them wiggling and also in a stick-on-the-side leaf bowel so it is high up and closer to his basking spot and easier to get to. That is where he has taken them from, btw. Sometimes I feel like I might be making matters worse by overwhelming him with food when he isn't interested. I leave greens in his viv until they start to wilt but he rarely touches them. I had been leaving in the pellets as well but I started worrying that they were just filling his gut since he was eating a lot of them while losing weight. But if it IS parasites then that would be what is causing the weight loss. I honestly was surprised when he started eating them. I kept looking under items in his viv to see where he's spilled them.

 

[Mirthy]

I just got back from the Vet. Dropped off a special delivery from Norris and they said they would call back tomorrow with results. They were very nice. I didn't get to see the vet but I didn't actually have an apt. The lady at the front desk has a 4 yr old beardie.
I know that somewhere on the site there is a form that is printable to fill out and take with you to the apt but I can't seem to locate it. I had it bookmarked but that was prior to my very loved kitty killing my computer. If anyone has the link, I'd be very much obliged.

Norris has had 5 crickets today with much coaxing. But he did eat them on his own. I just had to get them to parade back and forth in front of them for a very long time before he would humor me. His biggest meal (normally) is coming up so my fingers are crossed.

EDIT: He didn't touch food for his last meal. He wouldn't even lick off his chin. so today's not so grand total 5 crickets.

 

[Gail]

Have you tried feeding him in his cage? Some dragon really dislike a separate feeding tub. I would also try leaving crickets or roaches in a dish in his cage. You can pull the hopper legs off the crickets so they can't jump out.
All my babies learned to eat from a dish and now they sit in the empty bowls when hungry.

 

[Mirthy]

Hello Gail,
I regularly pull off one leg because it keeps the crickets in his 'strike zone' longer so doing two wouldn't be a problem. I'll give it a try. I initially fed in there but I was losing crickets under his carpet, etc and was worried about a bite. Perhaps that is the answer! He's mostly ignored worms and greens in there but you never know! And it's worth pulling up the carpet at this point to get the last one if he's going to eat in there. Thank you




Also: Waiting for the Vet to call me back with fecal results. I'm supposed to get a basic yes or no today on the parasite question with a more detailed answer at our vet apt.

 

[Mirthy]

I got a call from the vet and Norris' fecal came back clean of eggs and parasites. I think the test was targeted solely for pin worms. It feels really good to mark that one off the list of possible problems. I was so happy that I didn't even think that I should probably have still arranged a vet visit. I just said "Oh, great! Thanks, bye!" Poor person on the phone.
Okay off to try and tempt him into a bit more food.