new owner and I think he's really sick!

[angiethegreat]

Hi Everyone,

I've never been on a forum site so I's totally a newbie....
My husband and I just rescued a bearded dragon from this guy who had him a in tiny little cage with paper towel on the bottom of it...... he looks sad and and isn't moving around.
I rushed to the pet store yesterday and bought everything, and I MEAN EVERYTHING the dude there said to buy. So now Jack is chillin' in a new cage (well my old fish tank) its 30 gallons, so its 30" long and 12" wide and about 20" high......
Half the tank is sand and basking? rocks (no heat rocks though) and the other half is jungle earth and fake plants..... in the middle I have put his food dish and a water dish that's about 3" deep and long enough for his whole body to go into.
He looks deflated and isn't moving around at all.
He hasn't eaten and I'm not sure what his diet was before I took him on August 14th. Jack also has a night light and a day light. The day light is a sun-glo blue looking light bulb and the night one is purple. The pet store dude told me to use a red heat lamp but someone else wrote on another website that beardies don't enjoy the red lights very much. I am trying to tempt him with iceberg lettuce and granny smith apples. I didn't buy any crickets yet as I am unsure on what to do.
I'm very upset and have been searching the internet in vain in hopes of finding a cure for our new pet \

Any new suggestions would be so AWESOME!!!

 

[AMHaak]

I do not know the answer for this one, but if you answer some question for us someone else on this site maybe able to help you.


How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?

 

[Dantro]

Make sure you are getting a good temp gradient and ur basking area is around 95-100 degrees, how old is the dragon by the way? ..
The basking bulb is blue? ... it sounds like a silly question, but is it giving off blue light, a normal spot bulb will be better on a thermostat to control the temp, a stat wont be needed aslong as the temp doesnt get any hotter than 100 in the basking area, but do keep an eye on the temp and measure with a digi thermometer or temp gun.
Make sure the water is in the cool side otherwise it may raise the humidity in the tank and that can cause other problems.
Dont give iceberg lettuce, as it will give the dragon the runs and that wont do it any good in its current condition, try fresh greens or romaine lettuce / rocket.
Hows he doing?

 

[Ailsa]

Hi and welcome
First Id remove the sand, it can cause impaction
he will need some live food as well as veggies
Iceberg lettuce has little to no nutrition
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
is a great site for food info
you need to get him some crickets and dust them with calcium powder
You can give him a wax worm as a treat to get him eating, but not often as they can cause liver damage
good luck!

 

[angiethegreat]

wow..... now I am totally confused and really over whelmed.....
ok first of all,
here's the answers to the questions

How old is your dragon? I'M NOT TO SURE
How long have you had your dragon? ABOUT 2 AND A HALF DAYS
How long is your dragon? 9"
What is the sex of your dragon? HOW DO YOU TELL??
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 3O" LONG X 12" WIDE X 20" HIGH, IT WAS MY OLD FISH TANK, HE JUST WENT INTO THAT LATE LAST NITE, BEFORE HE WAS IN A TANK ABOUT 15" LONG X 10" WIDE.... VERY VERY SMALL
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? IS THAT LIKE THE SAND AND STUFF?? BEFORE WE TOOK HIM HE HAD WHITE PAPER TOWELING, NOW HE HAS HALF JUNGLE EARTH AND HALF DESERT SAND, WATER DISH SWIMMING POOL ROCKS TO REST ON AND FAKE PLANTS ON HTE OTHER SIDE WITH THE JUNGLE EARTH
Do you use UVB lights? THE LIGHT I HAVE IS A SUN -GLO AND ITS BLUE IN COLOUR
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? LOOKS JUST LIKE A REGULAR BULB BUT BLUE? SORRY I HAVE NO IDEA !
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? ITS A SUN-GLO UNSURE OF HTE WATTAGE
How old is your UVB bulb? IT CAME WITH JACK, SO I'M NOT SURE
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? HES CAN'T
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? NO
What are the basking temps? TEMP ON THE SAND SIDE IS BETWEEN 105-110 NEAR THE LIGHT AND HE IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CAGE
What is the cool side temp? ABOUT 80
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? I GOT A TEMP GAUGE THAT STICKS TO THE SIDE OF THE TANK
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? RIGHT ABOVE THE LIGHT, DUMB I KNOW, I DIDN'T THINK
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? NO HEAT ROCK, BUT HE HAD ONE BEFORE, APPARENTLY ITS NOT GOOD FOR THEM?? I HAVE A HEAT PAD ON the OTHER END OF HIS TANK UNDER THE JUNGLE EARTH
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. DRAGON FOOD, AND HE CAME WITH KING WORMS. I HAVE NO IDEA IF HE HAVE VITAMINS OR VEGGIES BEFORE I GOT HIM
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? I'VE JUST BEEN GIVING HIM THE FOOD IN HIS DISH AND HOPING FOR THE BEST
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? I HAVEN'T YET, AS I JUST GOT HIM. I HAVE GUT LOAD STUFF BUT I'M UNSURE WHAT TO FEED HIM IF HES SICK
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? SEE ABOVE
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? I'VE HAD HIM FOR 3 DAYS AND NO POOP YET, HE ALSO HASN'T EATEN.......
Do you bath your dragon? How often? BATH THEM? LIKE WITH SOAP AND WATER??? NOPE NOT YET
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? NO MISTING YET, UNSURE IF I SHOULD CUZ HE'S LOOKING ILL, AND HE HAS THE POOL
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? NOPE
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? I LIVE A RURAL AREA, MY VETS ARE COW AND HORSE DOCTORS...... NO VET CHECK OR POOP CHECK EITHER. AND I DON'T WANNA DRIVE HIM 4 HOURS IF HE'S SICK???


poor jack, he hasn't moved from where i put him this morning and he looks like hes sighing..... i'm totally upset, I rescued him thinking he's be fine with some heat and food but I think I am doing more harm than good for him. I have no idea how to make him better...... please help! Do you guys think that he's just stressed from the move and new habitat?? Man, I sure hope so!! :'( poor jack! i'm trying to do my very best for this little dude.....

 

[Ailsa]

OK remove the sand and replace with kitchen towel or newspaper
drip a little water on the end of his nose, he should lick at it if he does, keep doing it until he stops licking it
never use soap on him!
just luke warm water up to his belly, he may puff out if he doesnt like it but hey at least its a reaction
Feed him gut loaded crickets and calcium dusted
try him with 1 wax worm (only 1 though just to see if he will, these are very fatty and are only a treat)
What salad do you have in his viv?

 

[SlaveToKazul]

Hi! I know it can be a bit overwhelming at first, but once you get things set up right for him he will do a lot better. I just went through this same process over the summer, and I got a lot of great advice from the lovely people here. Let me see if I can answer some of your questions.

He is probably stressed out from the move, so I wouldn't worry too much about him not eating or moving around much for a few days. Here's some suggestions based on your list:

It might still be too early to tell the sex of your beardie. There is a sexing article on this website, though, if you want to check it out.

Your enclose should be fine for now, but he will outgrow it. When he is an adult you will need a minimum 40 gallon breeder tank.

Yes, substrate is what you have on the bottom of the tank. Jungle earth and sand can cause impaction if he eats it and cannot digest it. I'd suggest ditching both and putting paper towels back in. Newspaper and repti-carpet work well too.

Your lighting is the biggest concern I notice here. The Sun-Glo is just a heat and basking bulb. He does need one of these, but I'd consider exchanging it for a soft white light instead of blue. A regular house bulb will work for this. You will need a separate bulb that produces UVB rays that he needs to process calcium properly. He can get really sick, not eat well, and even die without a UVB source. Be careful, though - most pet store brands can also be bad for the beardie. Most of us use a Repti-Sun 10.0 flourescent tube (NOT compact/coil). You can order this online for about $20.

Your temps look good, but you'll want to double check them with a digital probe thermometer ($12 at Walmart) or a temperature gun from tempgun.com. They need very accurate temperatures to digest their food properly.

Check out the care sheets on this website for information about feeding. At his age, he should be eating as many live feeders as he wants in a 10-15 minute period, 2-3 times a day. Crickets are the most common live feeder, but there are others you can try. Don't feed him anything bigger than the space between his eyes, as this can cause choking and impaction. He also needs a salad offered daily.

Supplements: Calcium 5x a week, Multivitamin 2x a week. Repti-Cal and Herpvite are good brands.

Bathing helps the beardie stay hydrated. Baby warm water up to his shoulders. Let him soak for 15-20 minutes. You don't need to use soap. This is a better option than misting, which can cause respitory infections.

I know this sounds like a lot, but breathe :wink: and take it one step at a time. He might take a few days to relax and start eating again, so now is a good time to make sure is setup is good for him. If he's just stressed, he may not be sick at all. :mrgreen:

 

[jmain]

I'm also new to all this stuff and if this has been repeated then I'm sorry but.


How often do you give him a bath?

Also here is a good food chart
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

 

[Callahan9119]

You need this http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html?gclid=CIiP5p_bqZwCFQtN5Qodmw3AjA

And a fixture to hold an 18 inch T8 bulb.

You also need a dome light to put on the screen top with a 100W bulb you get in the grocery store to bask.

Get digital probe thermometers, they are like 10 bucks.

He doesn't need a jungle theme or deep waterbowls, newspaper if fine till you research something better and give him a 10 minute bath in luke warm water I guess collard greens are great veg. He won't do well till you get that UVB light, I have to wait a week for mine

Make sure you don't leave crickets in his cage at night.

I was like you 4 days ago, they never tell you anything, and you were just going by what you thought was good, they are high maintenance but awesome.

Good luck, I'm sure you will get it sorted out and he will perk up.

 

[angiethegreat]

Holy Crap, I think I am gonna shoot myself..... all my pets are spoiled rotten, both dogs, my cat of greatness and the fishes..... but this is nutty.... one site says one thing and other something totally different, right now I just need the basic care for him to get him to eat and atleast move around and open his little reptile eyeballs! some people say jungle earth and sand, paper towel seems mean and not very habitat like.... reptile carpet i couldn't find..... even the choice of light bulbs is up in the air. The dude @ petland said he recommends the heat light that makes red light, and the moon thing. He never recommended the uvb light, or I would have bought it.
I totally appreciate everyone's help... thanks so much....i'm just feeling really helpless..... I've had a host of exotic pets before, but this is my first reptile and I am over whelmed on his care needs. The piece of paper the previous owner gave to me isn't very useful apparently.........
I am concerned that if I move everything outta his cage again he'll be more stressed than before......
How do you know how old they are and if they are adults or not. Whats the measurement scale?? *sigh*
Should I give him a bath right now? Even though he looks sick and not moving around? Should I just submerge him in my bathroom sink? Head out? Do I dry him off? Its 11pm here right now and its time for the light to be switched to the moon light. Should I still bath him then put him in the cage without the heat light??
Is a sun-glo light bulb the same as a heating bulb? it shines regular light not blue, so I need a night light, a heat light and a uvb light?? So three domes on the top of the cage? I'm on it in the morning.......

Thanks again, sorry if I sound whiny..... I'm just worried about our new addition

 

[Callahan9119]

If you ever give him a bath you need him back in his home with lights on to heat back up.

For a basic fix you need to get rid of all the junk in the cage and lay down newspaper/paper towels/baking paperm, with a basking spot (rock) and things to climb, a bowl of fresh collard greens and a feed of crickets. He needs a domed fixture like this http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/1271/product.web

you set them on the top of the screen like this; line is UVB REPTISUN tube and X is the heat lamp.

_________UVB
X domed heat lamp

check your temps on basking middle and cool sides, what wattage bulb you get just depends on what works, I bet a 100 watt grocery store bulb is fine for basking.

 

[angiethegreat]

ok, so here's the latest 411 on Jack... he's ill... I dont think its just the stress *sigh* so I managed to hold him and syringe (needleless) about 1/2 teaspoon of water into the little dude. He's still laying flat on his belly, head down he won't eat the crushed king worm or the crushed apple, in the morning I am going to go get some apple sauce. Should I make a applesauce and bug smoothie?
I also believe that he may have a calicum issue. He has a bump on his back near his back legs and his left arm isn't moving very good. Is that sort of thing fixable? But I imagine that he's pretty weak...... I also think he is very dehyrated because the tip of his tongue is really dry looking. This sucks... Poor Jack.....
I have also called the previous owner and gave him an ear full about being a complete *****!! Taking care of a pet is serious business. So I'm not very popular with him or his dippy girlfriend..... boneheads! Although yelling at them isn't making Jack any better.....
And to top it all off, he won't open his eyes and they look like there is black stuff on the openings???
Thank everyone!

 

[puffsmama]

You do not need a night light. What you need is a UVB light...either a mercury vapor bulb that gives UVB and heat all in one, or a fluorescent tube UVB...
if using a tube...you want the reptisun 10.0 which you can order here for a very good price...
http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html
You do NOT want to purchase the reptiglo brand of bulbs as they are known to be dangerous to our beardies. You also do not want to purchase the coil style or compact style bulbs...they have been know to actually make beardies ill and damage their eyes.
For a heat/basking light you can use a regular household bright white or clear bulb in a dome fixture. You do not need any special basking light. Use whatever wattage of household bulb you need to get the proper temps in your beardie's basking spot.
You can get any fluorescent light fixture to hold the tube that you purchase. Walmart sells the light fixtures for around $12.00. You do not need to purchase a special expensive fixture from a pet store.
You can also get a digital probe thermometer at walmart or petco also sells them...petco has one for about $8.00. At Walmart they are $12.00 and are found where the household thermometers, thermostats and such are found. The brand at Walmart is called accurite.
You do need to get rid of the sand and jungle earth...they can cause an impaction which would be really bad. Paper towels are fine, and if you feel bad, you could give him a small piece of fleece to sleep on for something soft. Otherwise...paper towels are soft and easy to change to keep his tank clean.
Good luck with your beardie...I am sorry you were given such bad advice at the pet store...many of us here have been through the exact same thing...and you have come to the right place here at this forum. The pet stores are out to make money, and so are selling bad products that have no benefit to our beardies...it is frustrating.
Please don't give up...you have found a good site here with many knowledgeable and experienced people. If you have any other questions, don't be afraid to ask!!
Hugs and good luck to you and your baby!!
Cindy

 

[puffsmama]

ok, so here's the latest 411 on Jack... he's ill... I dont think its just the stress *sigh* so I managed to hold him and syringe (needleless) about 1/2 teaspoon of water into the little dude. He's still laying flat on his belly, head down he won't eat the crushed king worm or the crushed apple, in the morning I am going to go get some apple sauce. Should I make a applesauce and bug smoothie?
I also believe that he may have a calicum issue. He has a bump on his back near his back legs and his left arm isn't moving very good. Is that sort of thing fixable? But I imagine that he's pretty weak...... I also think he is very dehyrated because the tip of his tongue is really dry looking. This sucks... Poor Jack.....
I have also called the previous owner and gave him an ear full about being a complete *****!! Taking care of a pet is serious business. So I'm not very popular with him or his dippy girlfriend..... boneheads! Although yelling at them isn't making Jack any better.....
And to top it all off, he won't open his eyes and they look like there is black stuff on the openings???
Thank everyone!

Giving him a bath in warm water...about as warm as what you would bathe a baby in will help rehydrate him as he will take water in through his vent. When you get the babyfood, also pick up some squash and chicken baby food. But don't give him the chicken yet. I would start with the squash and applesauce, and thin it down some with water.

 

[angiethegreat]

I have about a million questions and not alot of resources at hand. I live rural alberta, canada......... usually its awesome, today when I need a bunch of stuff its totally bunk! here's to hoping the water helped him.....
Why does the jungle earth and the sand impact them? and why would the guy @ the pet store suggest it? I'm calling that fool in the morning as well..... I am also off the get a hood thing for a uvb light.......
I also rubbed the right side of Jack, just in case that would help!

~ Angie