Hornworms and food alternate

[Rico]

I have rather big hornworms. Rico seems like them but they’ve eaten almost all their food.
She pooped and today… put it on frig to take vet tomorrow because bath and ran around pooped, she went back into her hide.

Should I just get rid the hornworms???

 

[ChileanTaco]

Are you looking into alternatives for hornworms (to feed your dragon instead), or do you want to know what you can feed your hornworms?

 

[xp29]

You can feed hornworms that are bigger than other bugs because they are soft and squishy but if they are gigantic and your dragon is smaller don't feed the humongous ones.

 

[ChileanTaco]

If they are too big to use them as feeder, you can continue to feed them and let them pupate, then you get moths

 

[xp29]

If they are too big to use them as feeder, you can continue to feed them and let them pupate, then you get moths

I've tried to feed them (the moths) to my adult dragons they wouldn't even look at them lol.

 

[NickAVD]

I've tried to feed them (the moths) to my adult dragons they wouldn't even look at them lol.

Do you think it won't hurt beardie? I once had moths and Foxy tried to get them out of the faunarium to eat, but I was afraid and did not allow him to do this, so the moths lived happily all their lives.

 

[ChileanTaco]

@xp29
I had not suggested giving them the moths (for many reasons I would rather not, for example these moths have hairs, and some species are tasting bitter). I thought about just letting them hatch and observe their behavior - answer was maybe influenced by me being interested in all kinds of insects

 

[xp29]

As far as I know the hawk moths are safe to feed. They are just rather large and scared my beardies. Every obe ofvthem ran from the moths.
I don't know what species is safe or isn't as a rule so I really don't recommend feeding random moths to beardies. But I'm pretty sure I've seen it posted here that moths hornworms turn into are safe.
As far as hatching and observing I've hatched probably a coulpe dozen of them over the years. I don't keep them long, I don't have a habitat for them, and my beardies wouldn't eat them, so I just turn them loose.
In fact I have one now I'm wait to hatch.

 

[NickAVD]

for example these moths have hairs, and some species are tasting bitter

Once upon a time, in those days when I knew nothing about this forum, I read about dragons on one of the forums in my country, it was small and there was a lot of bad advice. But that's not what this is about. There was a topic about why dragons love dubias and don't really like crickets. One member wrote: "It's logical, it's because crickets taste bitter and roaches are sweet!" I didn’t ask him then how he knew this. And then I read your message and immediately remembered this story.

 

[ChileanTaco]

It might sound funny and one might guess "hmmm, have they eaten an insect?"* - but: I just know this from some books and research papers in behavioral biology.
Some moths have a bitter-tasting counterpart, a species that looks very similar (= mimicry). Birds who are familiar with eating the well-tasting species were given one of the bitter tasting ones - from then on they avoided any moths looking like that and thus also of the well-tasting species. (Was carried out in experiments with hand-raised crows).
There are a lot of species around that look somewhat similar to a bitter one: Think of all the insects which are round(ish) and red and black with same markings that are more or less dots - they look vaguely similar to ladybird beetles which are bitter tasting.

For the crickets: I never had bought any as they are simply not available here. But - growing up on the countryside - I was catching grasshoppers and crickets (different species than what's used as feeder) regularly, for a variety of reasons (from curiosity to needing it as food for a foster pet to simply letting them out when they were at the window).
If not washing the hands carefully after, and eating something with bare hands, maybe picking berries in the garden: disgusting! It was tasting awfully bitter. Their saliva is bitter, and they excrete it when trying to bite. Would not wonder if that's the same with crickets. Maybe somebody who use them as feeder knows?

* I have never eaten an insect. Not even as a kid. Not out of disgust, but I just don't like to cause suffering for something "funny" and have never liked that. My beardie needs insects, I'm totally fine with him eating them, but I don't need them as food for me and thus wouldn't eat them.

 

[NickAVD]

It might sound funny and one might guess "hmmm, have they eaten an insect?"* - but: I just know this from some books and research papers in behavioral biology.
Some moths have a bitter-tasting counterpart, a species that looks very similar (= mimicry). Birds who are familiar with eating the well-tasting species were given one of the bitter tasting ones - from then on they avoided any moths looking like that and thus also of the well-tasting species. (Was carried out in experiments with hand-raised crows).
There are a lot of species around that look somewhat similar to a bitter one: Think of all the insects which are round(ish) and red and black with same markings that are more or less dots - they look vaguely similar to ladybird beetles which are bitter tasting.

For the crickets: I never had bought any as they are simply not available here. But - growing up on the countryside - I was catching grasshoppers and crickets (different species than what's used as feeder) regularly, for a variety of reasons (from curiosity to needing it as food for a foster pet to simply letting them out when they were at the window).
If not washing the hands carefully after, and eating something with bare hands, maybe picking berries in the garden: disgusting! It was tasting awfully bitter. Their saliva is bitter, and they excrete it when trying to bite. Would not wonder if that's the same with crickets. Maybe somebody who use them as feeder knows?

* I have never eaten an insect. Not even as a kid. Not out of disgust, but I just don't like to cause suffering for something "funny" and have never liked that. My beardie needs insects, I'm totally fine with him eating them, but I don't need them as food for me and thus wouldn't eat them.

Yes, you are absolutely right! When you talked about your childhood, I remembered mine and how my hands could get dirty in the saliva of grasshoppers. That's right, it tasted terrible! How could I forget about this?!
When Foxy was little dragon, I used crickets as food but didn't notice them salivating, but I was always very careful with them and they never got stressed, maybe that's the reason. But I have noticed this behavior in dubia roaches. When I move a colony into a more spacious faunarium, I put them in a common basin without substrate, perhaps they are stressed because there are too many of them in one place and secrete a clear liquid that makes the bottom of the basin wet, but I don’t know what it is like taste and have no desire to try.
By the way, I heard that research is currently underway on growing forage crickets for use as human food. They contain a lot of protein and many useful microelements. I have read that there have been proposals to make powders from crickets to use as a dietary supplement.

 

[ChileanTaco]

By the way, I heard that research is currently underway on growing forage crickets for use as human food. They contain a lot of protein and many useful microelements. I have read that there have been proposals to make powders from crickets to use as a dietary supplement.

I've heard of that. Wouldn't be an option for me, though - I'm vegetarian (no milk; no whatever body parts of an animal; eggs okay when I can get them from somebody who has chickens running around in their garden but otherwise also not). And I'm fine with that already for decades Don't miss a thing, super healthy and no supplements necessary.
But I wouldn't find it disgusting in the way as of it's disgusting because it's an insect. I personally just prefer to not eat an animal when I have the choice.

When Foxy was little dragon, I used crickets as food but didn't notice them salivating, but I was always very careful with them and they never got stressed, maybe that's the reason.

That's of course easier when you use feeders instead (could be transferred without grabbing them), other than e.g. having to catch a stressed cricket or grasshopper at the window to let it out. Or catching them outdoors as food for an animal.
When I was young, I had a "lawnmower lizard" - means plainly, lizard where the tail was cut off by lawnmower blades, i was still bleeding. It was not the thing when the tail comes off ("throwing off the tail", despite it's actually coming off when e.g. an animal pulls on the tail), that leaves a star-shaped wound that's not bleeding. Countryside, not going with something like that to a vet, I kept it for weeks, lizard indeed got better/ normal and then I put it back in the garden. Food was grasshoppers. Another time it was for a baby bird on the ground and its parents just not coming back. Catching grasshoppers was the easiest thing; something like mealworms was ... I don't know how far away, likely next city? No way for me to get mealworms as a kid.
For a summer, I also kept a large katidyd (species was "Heupferd"), an insect-eating species. Food was mostly grasshoppers.