Help!

[CountofCasualty]

Help my baby Baron is acting sick! He was fine last night but now this!

I kind of noticed it this morning. He didn't want to eat, and he kept his head to the ground. Normally he's standing up and alert of everything around him. I put him on his rock and he started standing a bit and looking back to normal so I said 'okay, he's probably still not eating as much as he should and I'll feed him tonight'.

but when I got home he was lying beside his basking spot. I put him back up there and he just laid there really listlessly. I left him there for 15 minutes before taking him out to feed him(he only eats being hand fed), but he keeps his head down, taking BIG breathes every 5-10 seconds with his mouth gapping when he does it. When he isn't pressed right against my hand he does this alligator roll(best way to describe it) until he is happy with his positioning.

My first thoughts were he's dehydrated. So I got some warm water in a tupperware container and put him in it...except he won't even keep his head up out of the water! I massaged his tummy, thinking maybe he was impacted. He took a poop on me just now and it's kind of smelly. But it looks formed and firm.

I'm so worried. I don't have the money to bring him to a Herp Vet until Wednesday at best because rent is coming up. He was healthy and happy looking yesterday and now this...

How old is your dragon? About a month
How long have you had your dragon? 1 week
How long is your dragon? Uhmm. I don't know his exact length, but he's about the length of my index finger so maybe 3 and a half inches from head to base of tail?
What is the sex of your dragon? Not known
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? Exo Terra 36x18x18
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Slate Tile
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? It's the Reptisun 10.0
How old is your UVB bulb? A week old
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? it's 6 inches exactly from the basking spot, but he doesn't lie directly under it, so more like 7-8 on average
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? Yes seperate, it's a zoomed repti basking spot, it's 100w and it's kind of off white(like a regular house hold bulb?) I'm actually wondering if it's the basking bulb
What are the basking temps? consistently 105-107
What is the cool side temp? 80 on average
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Digital with probe and a temp gun that's 2" away when I take temps
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? I do most of the basking spot, but I focus mostly on the area he is laying in.
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? no.
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. He gets small crickets(less then the space between his eyes) dusted with calcium 5x a week and multivitamin 2x a week, and collard greens and butternut squash. Because he's only been here for just over week he hasn't eaten much because of relocation stress. I was feeding him a little bit of baby food last week but he hasn't needed it since getting worms.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? twice a day he gets offerings of insects)cut up horn worms right now, he's only eaten 3, before that he had crickets small enough for him), the veggies are always in, and I feed him morning and night (about 9 in the morning and 7 at night.)
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? I use the herpvite and calcium+d3. It's the reptical. I don't dust the worms with Calcium because I was told I didn't have to. Look above for dusting.
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? He has pooped 6 out of the 8 days. He didn't poop the first day(Friday the 19th) or Wednesday
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Every day
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? I offer him a bit of water in a syringe when I have him out.
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? Not yet. I'm waiting until the beginning of next month when I get paid to bring a fecal in.
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No, he's my only dragon.

 

[Esther19]

I'm sorry your little guy is not well. Your set-up sounds great. My first thought was dehydration, too. Were any household chemicals used in the vicinity of his viv? Anything he could have swallowed while out on the floor? If you're using a soft white bulb for basking, try switching it out for a clear one, or a flood light.

Hoepfully someone will come along with more suggestions.
Please let us know how he is doing.

 

[Esther19]

Are you hearing any noises when he takes those big breaths? Is the "alligator roll" like a barrel roll that a fighter jet makes? It could possibly be a respiratory infection (big breaths) or something neurological (rolling). Has it gotten significantly warmer lately where you live, and the temps may have risen without your knowledge?

 

[CountofCasualty]

I'm sorry your little guy is not well. Your set-up sounds great. My first thought was dehydration, too. Were any household chemicals used in the vicinity of his viv? Anything he could have swallowed while out on the floor? If you're using a soft white bulb for basking, try switching it out for a clear one, or a flood light.

Hoepfully someone will come along with more suggestions.
Please let us know how he is doing.

No. I'm really good about not using anything but vinegar and hot water anywhere but the bathroom to clean. He doesn't go anywhere outside of the Viv but on my lap/in my hands because I have two cats.
My boyfriend did a search and he kind of matches water in ears? I guess it messes up their balance and stuff and he was NOT happy with his bath last night and was thrashing a bit to get out which could have gotten some water in his ears. If that's it, I guess it's a waiting game and takes a few days?? I don't know I've never seen it.

I checked the bulbs when I got home(when I made that precautionary list a few days ago, I was at work), it's a clear bulb.

I put him on his basking rock and he's trying to pick himself up and he's gapping a bit once and a while but he isn't really doing much more then that. Before when I put him on it he army crawled(didn't pick his body up, just crawled) and nose dove off of it...but he's sitting/lying there now. He'll try picking himself up and will fall over or lie back down after a minute of half standing. But he looks like he's having labored breathing which I don't know how because it wasn't like that at all last night or this morning before I left.
Edit: When he nose dove off of his basking rock I managed to get my hand under him first so he didn't hit the floor.

No noises, and like a barrel roll yeah. It hasn't gotten warmer at all, his temps are still reading as normal. I don't know how it would be neuro, the only thing that comes to mind for that is him doing a half nose dive off of my lap last night onto the floor, but he slid down my legs and onto the floor and when I checked him over he seemed fine. He only started doing this after I got home-this morning he seemed fine when I took him out to feed him.

 

[CountofCasualty]

His lights just went out for the night, but he seemed happier with them on. Should I turn his basking light back on to help keep him warm for another hour or so?

 

[Esther19]

Wow. I am stumped. Water in the ears will cause balance problems, you're right. The only thing I can suggest is to take all the tall furniture out that he could fall off of. If he doesn't improve soon, I would advise a visit to a qualified herp vet. One of our moderators, Tracie, is also as knowledgeable as many vets are with dragons. You can PM her at Drache613. I sure hope your little one improves soon. Please keep us posted.

Yes, you can leave the light on. Just cover her so that it is dark for him to sleep. Geez, I wish I had more answers for you.

 

[CountofCasualty]

I turned his light back on, and took his basking rock out. I offered his hide for him to sleep in if he wants it, but am working on getting the temps semi-right for the basking spot not being in there.
I'm hoping he's improved some tomorrow. If not we'll probably bring him to the Herp Vet we know of on the North Shore. We bring our Hedgehog to him as well and he's very good with exotic animals(he's the one that I was recommended to bring all my exotic pets to by the gentleman I bought Baron from). My worry is he hasn't eaten today either(but boy did he poop), and if water in ears can cause that as well?? I'm so new at this and to have this happen so quickly after I got him is really freaking me out as a Dragon Owner.

Edit:I put him on top of his hide box-it wasn't getting warm enough on the ground. Maybe getting to 93. Hopefully lifting him up 3 inches helps get him to high nineties or 100. As I'm writing this he's wriggling(opposed to just lying there) and has his head up a bit. Not standing. But he's got his head up. Though he's wiggling around a bit unnaturally almost, kind of trashing his head.

It could be Neuro-I read a few things online, or an Ear Problem(ear infection for example, or the water). I don't think it's Calcium because when he was on crickets he got his calcium and multivitamins.

This is heart breaking for me. He just jumped off of his hide, but I'm keeping the light on to keep it warm, hopefully that might help.

 

[Esther19]

I sure hope the vet can determine what is going on. Will be anxious to hear what he says. Sending positive thoughts your way!

 

[sweetiepie9]

What a puzzle, could be an upper respiratory infection, which can come on quickly. You said his poop was smelly? Maybe a touch of parasites. You have all the right set up, so the only thing I can think of there is the basking spot a bit high at 107F but most babies like it hotter, so this is a mystery. When you take him to the vet, please take a fresh fecal, too. It's always when we have the least $ that they need the vet, but I'd make an appointment anyway, asap. I'm a bit concerned with the rolling, doesn't mean neurological, but could have something to do with his eyes. I have a friend with two beardies Baron's age, but she was using Reptiglow coil for UVB and it caused serious eye problem, which brought on the rolling.

You'll have to let us all know how he is, day by day. Sometimes it could be something he ate, maybe he didn't react well to the hornworms? I'm just guessing here. I know you had trouble with him eating, that would have been relocation stress...wish I had a definite answer for you. If it's a URI, he would also be making clicking sounds on top of the gasping.

Good luck, keep me updated!
Deb

 

[CountofCasualty]

Well he's picking his head up this morning. Which is an improvement over what he was yesterday with just keeping his head firm on the ground. And he's standing up and around a bit-no army crawling for him right now!
I'll try feeding him once he's warmed up.

I'm staying home all of today to keep an eye on him. I can get his tempts to 97-98 without his basking spot, so I want to try putting it back in and the temps up again but I need to keep a close eye on him with that in case he goes to dive off of it.

I was cuddling him last night after I turned his lights out and this is how he insisted to sleep on me. I tried to move him down and he would just crawl back up.

I'll still send a fecal in to the vet on Friday when Brandon gets paid to check for parasites if he has improved a lot today. I don't know how fresh a fecal has to be-since he didn't eat yesterday I don't know if he'll poop today. It might have also been so smelly because he pooped right on my shirt near my face. :lol:
He's also looking around-staying pretty stationary, but looking around and being more alert. And his breathing is back to normal from what I can see. No giant breathes and gapping when he does.

Last night I thought he was dying, I slept terrible and would wake up and check on him every 3 hours when I woke up to make sure he was still breathing.

 

[sweetiepie9]

It really sounds as if he might have aspirated a bit of a horn worm liquid, so glad he's not gasping like he was; looks like he's feeling better, so yes, put the basking spot back in and get his temps up, he needs the warmth. He sure was snuggling in, that's so good to see! And a fecal, if possible, should be the morning that it's dropped off, so that it's very fresh.

Let me know, good luck, hope he's ok on his basking spot. So worrisome when they're sick suddenly like that.
Deb

 

[CountofCasualty]

Put his spot in and just waiting for it to warm up. He's half standing up though, so that's good to see as well. He's not completely back to normal, I can tell, but it's getting there.

I have a feeling it might have been the horn worm liquid and him being dizzy from something at the same time. A combo of things to make that outcome.

 

[CountofCasualty]

So I took him out to feed him around 10, and he was running around(namely away from me and his food). I think he's tired of me hand feeding him the horn worm pieces, but he was sure full of energy by then.

He pooped on me again, but it was quite loose and not much at all. Still smelt quite bad, but again I'm not sure if it's because of how close I was to it or if there's something wrong. Before when he's pooped I haven't smelt anything. I also hope he doesn't make a habit of pooping on me like some beardies make a habit of pooping in the bath.

Still waiting on the silks, won't be getting them until Friday, ugh. I'll keep up with the horns. He ate some guts, but no pieces. But the worm I fed him had been chewing on a butter nut squash slice all night so it was bright orange inside. :lol: I'm going to try feeding him baby food with his calcium and vitamins tonight and see how that goes. Hopefully better then this morning.

But he is feeling better from what I saw. Thank goodness. T.T We'll still bring in a fecal on Friday, I'm just trying to find a good place to do it. The clinic we go to we can only get to by cab, by bus it's really hard. =/

 

[sweetiepie9]

My vet is in Surrey, which would be even more difficult to get to and I don't know any other vet, except for one I've heard of in Maple Ridge. Wish I could help, but it's great news that he's feeling better and it will be even better when you get the silks into him. And stinky poop usually means parasites have gotten out of control, but you'll see from the fecal. It might even be better to wait to bother with a fecal, he's awfully small for antibiotics, they really dry out babies. You might want to get some Acidophiluz+, I've been giving it to my crew for a few months and it's really helped with energy. It's a probiotic that helps tummies, brings back appetites and is all over good for them. I order all my liquids from Tracie (she's a moderator here and is really knowledgeable, more than a lot of vets I've heard about) and her site is www.bug-de-lite.com. I like it because it's a liquid & easy to feed and they love the taste, so I have no problem getting them to lick it down. Titan's just finished a harsh antibiotic, Baytril, so he needed it and I'm hoping he'll be eating on his own soon.

That's all I suggest besides daily baths to prevent dehydration. But it sounds as if he's getting his energy back, and hopefully pooping on you isn't an on-going thing!

 

[CountofCasualty]

I'll look into ordering that! I made him a slurry of squash, collard and horn worm with vitamins and calcium tonight, which he'll get twice a week if he's not eating solids. I'm making one without the Powders, and another with calcium but no multivitamins. That way if he doesn't eat I have a back up and it should freeze well I think so I can keep it on hand and thaw it quick.