Help with too much calcium/gravid

[NathanNatalie3002]

My bearded dragon is 14 months old. At 12 months she started to lay infertile eggs, she has late 2 so far and is producing another clutch I think due to eating loads it won't be long before she is scratching around again... She never looks skinny after laying because she is a good size and has layed 30 or just under in both clutches! So I assume she is healthy?

Anyway, set up etc correct, she is very particular about things. At the minute I am very lucky to get her to eat any crickets, she is however having a little amount of veg, the only thing she will eat is locusts and she will fight for them. Now... I have an issue. 1 is it bad to feed her locusts all of the time just so I know she is getting the protein she requires while laying etc? And I really don't think she needs a lot of food she is a big dragon. So I have been letting her have 6-8 locusts a day she can't stop eating! Usually she has 7 locusts every 2 days and veg in between. I understand that she needs more calcium at this time, but as she was only 12 months when she started laying she was already on calcium 5x a week. So because of laying I never cut down, she still has calcium very often...

Further to this she is going into a full body shed which is the first in ages as she's older now. And I have noticed some undisgested particles in her poop and yellow grates. So can I cut down on calcium even though she is laying to maybe 3x a week I don't think she needs all what I give her?

Also, I don't know if it is just her but can't find anything on the web... Each time she produces eggs every so often she will hunch her stomach up and wobble a little as if she forgets that she has the eggs in her, it's usually when she climbs from her basking down to the floor (maybe her form of protection!?) but it really scares me because it makes her seem unbalanced and like she will capsize and fall .

I was really worried about it but it only happens while developing/laying eggs. This stops has stopped on all 3 occasions in between laying, started again today...

I'm so confused!

 

[sweetiepie9]

She needs the calcium, in fact you should be giving her liquid calcium twice a day. It takes massive amounts of calcium to produce so many eggs and she's young to be starting, so don't stop the calcium. Let her eat whatever she wants as, even though she's a big girl, she'll shring really fast if she keeps laying, so don't hold back on any food. I'm not sure about the wobbling, but sometimes, without the extra calcium to replace what she's used, her body will grab the calcium from her bones, so she can start getting the beginning of metabolic bone disease. Your best bet at this point is to get her into a good exotic vet in your area for a complete check up, including a blood sample to determine her calcium blood level. The reason I'm concerned, I had a beardie named Sweetie who started laying infertile eggs at 2 yrs old. She laid so many by the time she was 4 that she did get low calcium blood levels, even though I was giving her liquid calcium once a day & dusting all her bugs and salad. She still got sick from low calcium, got pneumonia and passed away at 5 1/2 last winter. She was my 1st beardie & I'd had her since she was 4 mo old. My vet was very concerned but I didn't know what I know now. So please get her to a vet, at least for that blood test and a fecal test. The shedding is normal, she's losing weight, then gaining it again, Sweetie was always shedding after laying eggs. So let me know how it goes, but please check into liquid calcium & give it to her twice a day. You can get a very good calcium at www.bug-de-lite.com or www.beardeddragon.com. Either one would be great. They come with a small oral syringe and instructions on dosage. You can also PM Tracie, she's a moderator and I've known her for 6 years. She's wonderful with helping, espcially in your case. Her username is Drache613. She's as good as a vet & the bug-de-lite is her site. I get all my liquid supplies from her.

Please let me know how it goes with your girl. She needs special care when she's laying infertile eggs.

 

[Mustashio]

I dont have a girl dragon, but I just wanted to say that both Sweetiepie9 and Tracie are AWESOME moderators and have such great thorough advice. My Mustashio was very sick the first few weeks we brought him home as a baby and I really do credit these boards and the moderators with helping him to survive and now thrive! This is my first beardie and I had so many questions and worries, and this site is so comforting and gives me the new Mommy confidence I sometimes need! You guys (and gals) rock!

Much love,
Jill and Mustashio!

 

[sweetiepie9]

Thanks Jill, your Mustachio looks nice & healthy, handsome man! I was in the same position as you with Sweetie when I first got her. The mods on here helped save her life & get her thriving again. When she started laying eggs, they again gave me the best advice.

Nathan, you should post in Breeding, too, as the breeders on that forum will give you lots of good info, too. If you want I can move your post.

 

[NathanNatalie3002]

Thanks for your reply. That would be great to move it. When I first got Xena I had chacoby I got them as a pair she was never a thriving dragon despite the help of all the people on here the vet said that sometimes happens so I have had Xena since she was 2 months old.

I take extra care of her she is do spoilt and I panick all the time.

She weighs just over 500g and when she lays she never even looks like she has layed an egg because she has always been a big eater. I can never see the eggs either only feel them as she is chubby haha.

I just worried about the calcium because of all of the yellow on uratea about having too much but I guess what you say is true. I'm in uk and never used liquid calcium. My pure calcium and separate vitamins are from my exotic vet who is one of the best in the UK I heard... I only saw him once for a check up and fecal 6months ago as the vet is 2 hours away and I can't get there at the moment

Your post has really worried me I think she is really healthy but I'm worried now. I am going on holiday in 2 weeks and I didn't want her laying eggs while I was away. I've never left her for longer than a week before with someone I'm so protective but now I'm scared she might get ill while I'm not here she will of course have someone to feed her etc but are not knowledgable as you are and as much as I am.

Argh

 

[sweetiepie9]

I just had the one beardie who laid eggs and don't forget, she laid for 2 1/2 years before she got sick. So I don't think your Zena will ever get to that point. But the replacing of calcium is really important. When Sweetie started laying eggs, she laid 4 clutches every summer for the first 2 years and the extra calcium I gave her was enough. The year before she got so sick she laid 8 clutches in a year & that's when I didn't realize I wasn't replacing the calcium fast enough. I didn't mean to scare you, honest, just wanted to point out that the extra calcium is really important & she should be getting some every day. I know it's hard to know when she's carrying; as you've seen, infertile eggs are really tiny, so it's really hard to tell before she starts the little poops & the hunting for a male thing, digging in her tank, etc. I'm glad she's over 500g, that's a good weight, so let her eat all she wants, if she's going to lay more clutches she needs to be fat to support the laying of them. Just dust all her food daily, that should be enough, I think. I can understand about the vet, so you can also PM Tracie at Drache613 if you want more info. Plus I've moved your thread to breeding, hopefully someone here will be able to give you more info about calcium & food.

 

[AHBD]

Hey there ! Try not to worry too much ! I've never had a beardie get sick in any way from egg - laying in 18 years and although problems can happen, it's not really common. I've had a female that laid 9 clutches and still never developed a calcium deficiency and that was with no liquid calcium, just the powdered and lots of good food. Sometimes they look a little wobbly just from being rotund and carrying that extra load . So, like Sweetie said just keep up the good food and calcium and she should be fine .

 

[NathanNatalie3002]

Thank you very much. I think with the recent in digested food I'm gonna up the temperatures a couple of Celsius all the way through the tank!

 

[NathanNatalie3002]

UPDATE! For those following this post thanks for your comments.

I am not sure if Xena is actually going to lay more eggs as yet, I think she is was looking bigger because of the shed which is all nearly off now, I did decrease my temps a bit back because I thought they were slightly too hot, and the result was the undigested poop. The past two days I have made the tank very hot, and her poo is almost all solid now. 83f is coolest temp 94f middle basking surface106-115f.

Although this is slightly hotter than usually temps, I really believe that this benefits her more, as like I said, I started to think it was too hot and the decrease caused the issue. My bad! She loves the hot temperatures! Please feel free to correct me though. Humidity is usually 34% but its 40% at the moment as she has some watery veg and just had a bath to make sure she is hydrated as she never drinks much and the temps are increased.

Thank you

 

[sweetiepie9]

40% is great humidity, right where it should be, anywhere between 30-40% is best. AS for the temps, you go by what your dragon likes, so I'm glad you readjusted to her liking, after all she lives there! The cool side coud be a bit cooler, but if she feels better being that extra warm, and she's getting baths everyday to avoid dehydration, then it's all good. It's so funny that after eggs there is usually a shed, glad it's almost over. If you can't tell she's holding eggs, then you just have to watch for the signs that she's getting ready. That's all you can do. So glad she's getting her weight back, that's really important.

Thanks so much for the update! Glad you got through it with her!

 

[NathanNatalie3002]

Thank you, It sometimes is about 80 at the least at the cool side- currently 82. She has been in the hot end and mid end all of today so she must like it!

Thank you for your help

 

[sweetiepie9]

Yes, she must, I'm so glad she got over it so well & gained all that weight. You'll have to let me know if she lays more. Hopefully she'll be done soon!

 

[NathanNatalie3002]

I will, I hope she doesn't lay anymore as yet, but she is still the same size as before her first clutch, everyone used to say she was chubby haha! She still eats a lot more than usual so she may lay... And hasn't gone off her food during her shed.

Well this was the first poo since I upped the temps (she goes every 3 days) and has been eating less insects and more veg recently but hopefully the next one will be digested also.

Thanks