Dragon Going Crazy!!!

[EmAndWillow]

I'm very worried, this behaviour is highly unusual for my beardie :/ any advice would be much appreciated as i don't want her to take a turn for the worst and die

My dragon shed 80% of her body around a week ago and now she's started to act crazy! she won't eat, any food offered to her she ignores but she's pooping everyday in small amounts (this is very unusual as she used to go once every 5-6 days) she strains when she goes and drags her back end around for a short while afterwards like she's irritated.

She used to be very docile and relaxed but she's been constantly scratching at the walls of her viv for almost a week tring to escape and flying out of the doors when i open them, is something irratating her on the inside? her colours are good, no stress marks but i'm afraid she could hurt herself. I think she's dehydrated and she's loosing a little weight but is still hyperactive.

Here is her setup, its a 3ft long. Excuse the red light, it has since been replaced with a white light & the sand is children's play sand from Toys 'R' us

*ALSO her stomach feels loose and squishy when i handle her, not firm like it was a while ago

 

[AHBD]

Hi Em....here are some things to consider. She may be ready to lay eggs [ yes, even if she's never been with a male, they develop infertile eggs ] and is desperately looking for what she considers to be a good laying site. You should get a lay bin ready, instructions can be found in the breeding section if you scroll down the topics , it's at the top of the page " what to do if your dragon lays eggs" It's odd that her stomach is squishy, though,[ a belly full of eggs is usually pretty firm, but not every case is the same ] but you still want to be prepared. The other thing to think of is impaction....like she can't go to poo. You might seriously consider getting the sand or whatever you have out of the tank and replace with non adhesive shelf liner, or tile, you can even use newspaper. IF she is impacted, give her a shallow warm bath, drip water on her nose to get her to drink, also give her some vegetable/ or mineral oil, applesauce, canned pumpkin [ any of those ] to help her move her bowels. But to me it sounds like she's ready to lay eggs, they lose their appetite and scratch like crazy. Please make a lay box ASAP ! I just thought of this.... you can get the sand from her tank quickly, put in a large plastic tote and add warm water until the sand is clumping but not wet....kind of like cookie dough. Pile it up on one side and start a tunnel She'll probably start digging right away. It's important for her to have a lay box so she doesn't hold the eggs [ if she has them ] and become eggbound.

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Good call on the eggs, just wanted to point out that if the eggs are infertile then it's likely that her belly would still feel pretty squishy. Sometimes infertile eggs don't have much structure at all. You should probably consider giving her extra calcium just in case as well. Also, if your dragon does lay eggs, she'll likely be ravenously hungry afterwards so be prepared with lots of dragon food! You could PM Deb (sweetiepie9) for more info, she's very experienced with this kind of thing & loves to help. Good luck!

 

[ErwinsDad]

That definitely sounds like what my Erwin just went through. I just posted a message this morning asking about bleeding, but we didn't even know "he" was a "she" until yesterday when she laid 19 eggs!

But a couple of weeks ago, my wife called, upset that our Erwin was acting very funny. She even ran against the glass and pressed her face against it, looking at my wife as if asking, "help me!".

On a side note, I've got to ask, where did you get the really cool ladder that you've got in the enclosure? The enclosure I built for Erwin looks very similar in size to yours, and that would be an awesome addition for her.

 

[EmAndWillow]

Thankyou everyone for your in-depth replies, Sorry i forgot to mention! I have made her a lay box, i placed her in it but she keeps jumping out of it. should i make it big enough so that she can't escape??

i've had a good feel of her stomach many times for eggs with no definitive evidence, she was deprived of calcium and UVB for the majority of her life until i got her in January so its likely the eggs aren't well formed at all because of her lack of nutrient prior to me owning her.

Her behaviour displays no "digging" actions at all, more like climbing, jumping and glass jumping. I placed the lay box in her viv the other day and she showed no interest in using it, just pacing left to right left to right avoiding it, but i guess i'll have to be patient, i don't want her to become egg bound

 

[EmAndWillow]

On a side note, I've got to ask, where did you get the really cool ladder that you've got in the enclosure? The enclosure I built for Erwin looks very similar in size to yours, and that would be an awesome addition for her.

i got it from my local pet shop its actually meant for small animals not reptiles! she loves it though

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Have you checked her enclosure temperature recently? If so, what is the backing temp & cool side temp, and what do you use to measure it? What kind of lighting are you using? How old is your dragon? I just ask because what you're describing could also be signs of overheating

 

[EmAndWillow]

Have you checked her enclosure temperature recently? If so, what is the backing temp & cool side temp, and what do you use to measure it? What kind of lighting are you using? How old is your dragon? I just ask because what you're describing could also be signs of overheating

I have, i check it using an infrared thermometer, basking temps (right under the light) are 100, the hot side stays roughly between 85-90 and the coolest part of her viv is 75. I'm using a 75watt spot lamp at the moment, the distance between the light fixture and the bottom of the viv is about 12 inches so a 100watt would be too powerful, and she has an Arcadia 12% desert bulb that will need replacing this June. She hatched between October and November 2010, i've owned her since January this year. She was neglected by her previous owner so her growth is stunted, I understand it might be a result of overheating but i have a habistat that controls her temperatures so i can accurately produce any temperature, she likes to be close to her basking light and starts gaping after about 10 minutes she reaches optimum temperature

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Have you checked her enclosure temperature recently? If so, what is the backing temp & cool side temp, and what do you use to measure it? What kind of lighting are you using? How old is your dragon? I just ask because what you're describing could also be signs of overheating

I have, i check it using an infrared thermometer, basking temps (right under the light) are 100, the hot side stays roughly between 85-90 and the coolest part of her viv is 75. I'm using a 75watt spot lamp at the moment, the distance between the light fixture and the bottom of the viv is about 12 inches so a 100watt would be too powerful, and she has an Arcadia 12% desert bulb that will need replacing this June. She hatched between October and November 2010, i've owned her since January this year. She was neglected by her previous owner so her growth is stunted, I understand it might be a result of overheating but i have a habistat that controls her temperatures so i can accurately produce any temperature, she likes to be close to her basking light and starts gaping after about 10 minutes she reaches optimum temperature

Sounds pretty perfect to me. Good luck, and please keep us updated! How is she doing now?

 

[sweetiepie9]

I really sounds like she's got infertile eggs growing. She'll keep jumping out of her laybox for about a week before she'll settle down & lay. It's important that she get extra calcium right now. I've had alot of experience with rescues & laying dragons. My Sweetie started laying eggs when she was 2 yrs old & continued until she got sick with pneumonia last December & passed away. She was 5 1/2 yrs old at the time. The pacing, the little poops (really small with urates with them) are all part of finding a male. The constant wanting to be out & the lack of appetite are all signs of having eggs, too. We thought Sweetie was a male, too, until she laid an egg one morning on her 2nd birthday. that was a really big surprise.

So for the extra calcium, which is really important, especially if she had a lack of same for most of her life, I used Zilla food spray liquid calcium. I gave Sweetie .01 ml per 100g of her weight every am through an oral syringe. She was used to licking up water from a syringle already, so she'd lick up the calcium. The eggs will use up whatever calcium she has in her body, even taking it from her bones if necessary, so giving her extra, now that she's not eating, is very important. Continue to give her that daily until her eggs are laid & even a couple of weeks afterwards. Once she's laid the eggs, make sure there are lots of bugs available for her, she'll be really hungry and will need lots of protein, also veggies/greens. Have you ever checked the nutrition list at www.beautifuldragons.com? It's a great list of foods that are & aren't good for dragons, so check it out. I've been following that list for 6 years, ever since I first adopted Sweetie.

I also put the laybox out of her tank, as it needs to be at least 8" deep if not deeper, they like to make a tunnel or dig a deep hole to lay their eggs in. Sweetie would jump in & out of her box for up to 5 days before settling down, we got used to the signs after awhile & could never tell if she was carrying until she started the glass dancing & small poops. So don't be surprised if you can't feel any eggs, they're very small (about the size of a nickel or even smaller) and are very hard to feel.

You're doing everything right in her tank, please make sure she drinks water or put her in a bath daily to soak for at least 15 min, as it's very hard labour for them to lay eggs & they need to be hydrated. Good luck & keep us all posted, sounds like she'll be laying within the next couple of days.
Deb

 

[EmAndWillow]

I really sounds like she's got infertile eggs growing. She'll keep jumping out of her laybox for about a week before she'll settle down & lay. It's important that she get extra calcium right now. I've had alot of experience with rescues & laying dragons. My Sweetie started laying eggs when she was 2 yrs old & continued until she got sick with pneumonia last December & passed away. She was 5 1/2 yrs old at the time. The pacing, the little poops (really small with urates with them) are all part of finding a male. The constant wanting to be out & the lack of appetite are all signs of having eggs, too. We thought Sweetie was a male, too, until she laid an egg one morning on her 2nd birthday. that was a really big surprise.

So for the extra calcium, which is really important, especially if she had a lack of same for most of her life, I used Zilla food spray liquid calcium. I gave Sweetie .01 ml per 100g of her weight every am through an oral syringe. She was used to licking up water from a syringle already, so she'd lick up the calcium. The eggs will use up whatever calcium she has in her body, even taking it from her bones if necessary, so giving her extra, now that she's not eating, is very important. Continue to give her that daily until her eggs are laid & even a couple of weeks afterwards. Once she's laid the eggs, make sure there are lots of bugs available for her, she'll be really hungry and will need lots of protein, also veggies/greens. Have you ever checked the nutrition list at http://www.beautifuldragons.com? It's a great list of foods that are & aren't good for dragons, so check it out. I've been following that list for 6 years, ever since I first adopted Sweetie.

I also put the laybox out of her tank, as it needs to be at least 8" deep if not deeper, they like to make a tunnel or dig a deep hole to lay their eggs in. Sweetie would jump in & out of her box for up to 5 days before settling down, we got used to the signs after awhile & could never tell if she was carrying until she started the glass dancing & small poops. So don't be surprised if you can't feel any eggs, they're very small (about the size of a nickel or even smaller) and are very hard to feel.

You're doing everything right in her tank, please make sure she drinks water or put her in a bath daily to soak for at least 15 min, as it's very hard labour for them to lay eggs & they need to be hydrated. Good luck & keep us all posted, sounds like she'll be laying within the next couple of days.
Deb

Thankyou for confirming my suspicions about her laying. I'm trying to do everything i can to make her comfortable, i have a tub (I'll take a picture and post it tomorrow its lights out now) that i'm using as her lay box, its only as long as she is :/ so she can just about comfortably turn, i don't have anything larger that will fit inside her viv! I've filled it with soil and damp sand and started a tunnel but she jumped in it today and collapsed it!
I'm striving to keep her hydrated but i've never used liquid calcium before, just calci-dust. She's eating small amounts of collard greens and the occasional wax worm (nice and fatty to try and keep her weight up) Can i mix cali-dust with water droplets to hydrate her and give her calcium or does it specifically have to be liquid calcium??
Also i'm not sure about the size reference to a "nickel" as i'm in England but i presume its the size of a 5p coin?

Thanks again for your help i really appreciate you guys helping me through this monumental time in Willows life

 

[sweetiepie9]

I would think so, as far as the calcium, just make it easy to put into a syringe. Being in England I don't even know what is available for liquid calcium, so try that, as it's important she be replenished if she's carrying eggs. That's good that you're able to get some greens into her & wax worms work well right now, too, As for her laybox, can you put a grocery produce boxes together & make her a laybox that way. Are you home alot during the day? I'm not sure if the laybox in the tank will work, but give it a shot anyway. Just leave it in there, she'll dig her own tunnel or hole when the time comes. Don't forget, she'll be crazy for awhile before she settles down to lay. If she hasn't laid in 2 weeks, a visit to the vet would be a good idea. So keep me posted. I know how difficult it is, when Sweetie started with her first clutch, it drove me nuts, as we had no idea what it was all about & she didn't show at all that she was carrying eggs! Make sure you have lots of protein bugs available when she's done, she'll want a bath to clean her off & rest her up a bit, then she'll be ravenous, if not the same day (it's very tiring laying eggs, as they lay between 20-35 eggs at a time, takes a couple of hours, then they turn around and tamp down the top to make sure the eggs can't be found. Once she's asleep, you can remove the laybox, remove the eggs & throw them away. They're just full of yolk, bright orange, as I checked one day out of curiosity, so can be thrown away right away, in a plastic bag.
So good luck & keep me updated. It's always an anxious time, the waiting I mean.
Take care
Deb

 

[EmAndWillow]

I would think so, as far as the calcium, just make it easy to put into a syringe. Being in England I don't even know what is available for liquid calcium, so try that, as it's important she be replenished if she's carrying eggs. That's good that you're able to get some greens into her & wax worms work well right now, too, As for her laybox, can you put a grocery produce boxes together & make her a laybox that way. Are you home alot during the day? I'm not sure if the laybox in the tank will work, but give it a shot anyway. Just leave it in there, she'll dig her own tunnel or hole when the time comes. Don't forget, she'll be crazy for awhile before she settles down to lay. If she hasn't laid in 2 weeks, a visit to the vet would be a good idea. So keep me posted. I know how difficult it is, when Sweetie started with her first clutch, it drove me nuts, as we had no idea what it was all about & she didn't show at all that she was carrying eggs! Make sure you have lots of protein bugs available when she's done, she'll want a bath to clean her off & rest her up a bit, then she'll be ravenous, if not the same day (it's very tiring laying eggs, as they lay between 20-35 eggs at a time, takes a couple of hours, then they turn around and tamp down the top to make sure the eggs can't be found. Once she's asleep, you can remove the laybox, remove the eggs & throw them away. They're just full of yolk, bright orange, as I checked one day out of curiosity, so can be thrown away right away, in a plastic bag.
So good luck & keep me updated. It's always an anxious time, the waiting I mean.
Take care
Deb

I will give it a try!
i can't really move her out of her viv as it isn't really suitable in this living space to have another setup with heating etc (i still live at home) so the lay box will have to be placed inside. She's incredibly stunted for her age (because of her previous owner) she only weighed 115grams when i got her 3 months ago, i managed to get her up to 289grams (with crickets, super worms, locusts, and wax worms all gut loaded and dusted a few times a week)

i'm scared to weigh her recently incase i'm shocked with how much weight she's lost!

The big shed/spring fever has overlapped unfortunately so her time without food has increased! I'm home during the day from Monday to Wednesday (i work nights) then I have college solidly from thursday and work all day Saturday and Sunday but there is always someone at home to look after Willow at any given time.

The waiting is really intense! and so confusing, all of this is new to me i'm finding it very overwhelming . I wasn't home today but apparently she's starting to calm down now so I hope its not too late and she is trying to hold onto the eggs :/

 

[EmAndWillow]

*I also think i need to make the lay box much deeper but the only thing i have left (i've used all the sand) is soft soil, can i mix the two together and make it damp? so it still holds its shape?

and i just bought this, it probably won't be here in time before she lays but it should help her out in the weeks after...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170778771864?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1127wt_1219

 

[sweetiepie9]

That's the liquid calcium, but not the same as the one I use, so not sure of the dosage. Please PM Tracie, Drache613 to ask for the correct dosage, as she's the expert in that field. She's the one I always turn to for dosages. Give her the link to the picture of the calcium, too, so she'll know what you got.

I know what you mean about space, and you can add soil to her laybox. Just keep putting her in it, even if she keeps jumping out, she'll get the drift after awhile. So as I said, if she hasn't laid anything in two weeks, then it's time for the vet, especially if she's a rescue. You sure have a busy schedule, hopefully someone can keep putting her in the laybox when you're not home. Just realize that if she is carrying eggs, she's going to lose alot of weight, but she will be ravenous after laying, even if it's not the first day or two. The first time they lay eggs, they're going on instinct & really don't know what's going on. How long is she, I know beardies can be stunted by neglect, soI'm glad you were able to get her weight up. Sounds like she has alot to choose from when it comes to bugs, the locusts especially will put weight on her.

Try not to worry, it's a natural thing for female beardies to lay eggs. It's just scary the first time. I'm hoping she'll get over the experience & not lay any more, as you'll go through the same thing every time.

So keep us all posted!
Deb