Bearded Dragon isn't growing?

[earthmarktwo]

Hi everyone, I am here on behalf of my beardie Brox. I've had Brox for three weeks, and in that time he hasn't grown at all. He is currently 7.1 inches nose to tail, and has been since I bought him. Is this normal? It's winter in Australia, but he isn't brumating. He eats and poops fine. He is currently under a ReptileOne UVB 10.0 tube and a 100watt bright white basking lamp. I feed him 2-3 times a day as much as he'll eat in about ten-fifteen minutes. Some days he will eat more than others, but he always eats something. Doesn't touch his greens, but apparently that is normal for babies? He gets a bath every day/every second day and his poops are usually every day. Some days he won't poop but he's never gone more than 48 hours without pooping. Oh, and his tank is a 3ft by 1.5 ft. He'll be getting a bigger tank when he gets more towards fully grown, we're planning to make him quite the mansion

Is it normal for him to not grow much in 3 weeks? He is around 3 months old now, if what the pet store said is true. If you have any other questions about his setup, please ask. My mum assures me it's probably nothing, but I'm super paranoid about him, cause he's just a little guy and I want to do the best I can for him.

Thankyou to anyone who offers advice, and any advice on caring for them is definitely appreciated.

 

[kcarello]

What are your temps and what are you measuring them with?
What type of substrate do you have?
Are you dusting his crickets (if that is what you are feeding him) with calcium 5 x week and vitamins 2 x week?
What type of feeder insects are you giving him?

 

[earthmarktwo]

What are your temps and what are you measuring them with?
What type of substrate do you have?
Are you dusting his crickets (if that is what you are feeding him) with calcium 5 x week and vitamins 2 x week?
What type of feeder insects are you giving him?

His basking spot is 30 degrees and cool end is around 25. They are measured with a digital probe thermometer. I'm hunting for a TempGun though as he doesn't like the probe sitting near his head. I was under the impression this is a little cold but was told by someone with experience that it is fine for the winter months. His cage needs a better top on it as all the heat escapes through the top. I'm working on that at the moment, hopefully his temps will be raised a little when the new top goes on.

Currently he is being kept on newspaper, though I am looking for a linoleum with enough texture that he won't slide around on it.

He is eating crickets no bigger than the gap between his eyes. They are dusted with calcium powder 6 days a week as I am yet to find a vitamin powder (the pet shop I visit has been out of stock as they are moving stores and not getting in new stock until after their move)

He is also occasionally getting wood cockroaches, but I hate the way they smell, so I don't normally get them for him. I offer him a plate of greens every day, but he is yet to actually eat any. I read that this is normal for babies?

I have done a lot of research, so I hope that I am doing everything right. If not, please tell me. I'd rather look the fool than do something that is harmful to him.

 

[IzzyTony]

Are those temps in celcius?

Ideally cooler end should be about 25c and warmer end around 40-44c with a gradient in the middle (so the heat temps flow from one end to the other rather than just jumping).

As for the salads. Some beardies just don't eat them, Mine is one of 'em. Izzy will only eat them from time to time and only when he thinks im not watching him. You can get soem of the nutrients into your beardie via gutloading crickets with the salad you'd like him to eat and then feeding those to him instead

As for the roaches, Try Dubai roaches. They don't die off quick like crickets do and they have almost no smell at all (unlike crickets).

Hope this helped.

Tony

I also notice from your signature you have 2 blue tongued skinks, I'm looking into getting one of those soon (if i can find a breeder in the area, they seem hard to find in the UK).. Are they easy to keep?

Sorry to sidetrack the thread a tad

 

[earthmarktwo]

Ah, oops They are in celsius. Sorry! I was dubious when I was told my temps were fine, and am working towards getting it hotter in his basking spot. His current enclosure doesn't hold heat very well, so I am looking at different ways to insulate it. It will be easy as anything in the aussie summer, just that temps are so low at the moment, it is reflected in the enclosure temps. Could the lower temps be why he isn't showing any signs of growth?

I am pretty sure Dubia roaches are American, and as such I cannot get them in Australia without shipping them overseas I don't have a problem with crickets dying - Brox eats them much faster than they die. I never have any die before they're heading down his throat! And I don't even notice the smell. So I'll continue with the crickets. They are gutloaded before they go to him, so at least I'm doing that right!

What I'm paranoid about is that he isn't growing. I know it's only been three weeks but everywhere I've looked I've seen them show significant growth in a month. He hasn't grown at all and it's only a few days shy of a month. My concern is that the lack of growth is because of an underlying problem like worms or something? If it's something I can fix, I want to Thankyou for the advice, too, as I'm constantly worrying that I'm doing something wrong.

I also notice from your signature you have 2 blue tongued skinks, I'm looking into getting one of those soon (if i can find a breeder in the area, they seem hard to find in the UK).. Are they easy to keep?

Sorry to sidetrack the thread a tad

I don't mind the sidetracking, I'm happy to feel a little like the expert for once Blue tongues are hardy animals, and don't require live feeders (in fact, they're clumsy so any live feeders have to be pretty darn slow, like snails or mealworms. They LOVE snails, as an occasional treat) so they are much cheaper to feed. They're omnivorous though, and generally you want 60% vegetables and 40% meat in their diet. That meat should be something like cooked chicken or cat/dog food. When he was six, Bilbo actually escaped and spent eight months on his own in the neighbouring yards! Neighbour found him and gave him back! People will tell you it's more difficult than it is. I should say it like this - if you feed them once a day (for juveniles, adults every other day), give them UVB, keep their temps from fluctuating, you'll have a happy Bluey. The amount of care for a beardie seemed so daunting when I started reading, which is why I'm so paranoid I'm messing up Brox's care. Blue tongues were a walk in the park in comparison. If you have any specific questions, I love answering questions as much as I like asking them

 

[IzzyTony]

Well, I always come here for tips and stuff about Izzy.

I'm fairly new to the bearded dragon scene too ( had izzy about 16months and he's my first). I'm sure i got as much wrong initially as i got right ( and I'm pretty sure most BD owners learned most of what they know via trial and error aswell).

You said the roof of the tank is mesh? So would it be something like this? http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=exo+terra+terrarium&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qWj&rls=org.mozilla:en-GBfficial&prmd=imvns&resnum=3&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1920&bih=928&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11513008851478478158&sa=X&ei=e9nVT52MG4fm8QPkk7ShAw&ved=0CHcQ8wIwAA sorry for the long link

If it is indeed something like this, it's similar to what i used when Izzy was a Juvie and have since found out that it's far from ideal. As the cubed shape makes a heat gradient very had to attain, and the meshed roof also lets heat escape :/

Which bulbs are you using? UVB and Heat Lamp bulbs, I use an 18" Arcadia 12% bulb (best you can get and available online) and a normal househould bulb for my heat source (Brand is Philips think its 75w though i may be wrong, and it was a snip at £2 with a life expectancy of 2 years where as the so called retile heat lamps usually cos tripple that and are so damn femmer if you sneeze in the same room as them the element blows lol).

You should try and set you viv up so your BD can get within 6-10 or 8-10 inches of both the UVB strip and the Heat source for optimal results. Like you rightly said it's early days yet and once you get those temps right i'm sure your guy will flourish.. Also be wary of the substrate you use, as BD's especially juvies love to lick.. everything and sand is a known killer of Beadies even though it looks cool, Tile is way safer and easier to clean and if liek me you find some colourful ones they look almost as good as sand.. I use pale orange and white textured tiles in my viv for izzy

By no means do i think my viv is the best out there in terms of looks or functionality and i am at present looking for ways to tweak Izzies lighting aswell to make his home more cozy

It's an ongoing struggle Anyway i'll post some links below of my set up (as it was last week before some minor tweaks) and of izzy himself

https://picasaweb.google.com/105660496751170946892/Lighting?authkey=Gv1sRgCKvTgqGtmKLEoAE

https://picasaweb.google.com/105660496751170946892/VivSetUp?authkey=Gv1sRgCImep-XcyMCVoQE


Hope i was of some assistance, I do ramble on at times it has to be said


Tony

 

[earthmarktwo]

Your setup looks great! I really, REALLY want my lights mounted inside the tank, unfortunately it just isn't an option right now. Izzy looks very happy and healthy, haha. Such a great pattern down his back, too!

Brox's enclosure is this (it's homemade from a few years ago) and you can sort of see the top mesh. I hate it, I feel like so little of his heat and light gets through. I'm sick and tired of scratching myself on the sharp edges too. I'm always so worried about scratching Brox I forget about my own appendages...Anyway, the enclosure!

It's my intention to find him something much better, but I'm yet to see something I like. Probably gonna end up making a wooden one, as much as I want to avoid that. My dad helped with Brox's current one, and I'm a hopeless DIYer.

I've (thankfully) read enough about impaction to steer well clear of substrate he could swallow. Brox has a ReptileOne UVB 10.0 tube and a 100 watt bright white basking light. I've had one blow already and the next one I get is going to be a standard household bulb...I had a good chuckle about the sneezing, so true! When his UVB is due to be replaced in 5 months, I will definitely check out the Arcadia, thanks for the recommendation. Brox won't know what's hit him when summer rolls back around and it's 35+ room temperature!

Seriously though, your advice is great and I much appreciate it. I'm guilty of rambling a bit myself, I certainly can't complain when other people do it! You have been very helpful, and not at all degrading which is nice.

 

[IzzyTony]

Well I can hardly be degrading when in all honesty, I'm not close to as knowledgeable as most of the ppl on here are.. It's like anything though, Learn from experience and try to keep them healthy along the way. We will all make mistakes and browsing around here is often better than asking in pet shops (as they tend to talk garbage anyway). I have changed loads of things regarding Izzies stuff just by stumbling around this site. With regards to the roofing, You could maybe try thickened corrigated cardboard? You may laugh, But last year when i shanged izzies heat lamp positioning, I didnt havethe dunding to pay £20 for a mounted bracket to angle his lamp. So i got creative, I got an old box, cut a slice of card from it, poked a hole in the middle and ran the cable attached to the ceramic lbulb holder through the hole, positioned it at the angle i wanted on the top of the tank (outside) and made 2 smaller pieces and taped the whole box together and positioned it on the top of the tank above a hole cut in the tank with a drill mounted circle cutter... A year later its still fine and any time i want to change the angle i just make a new one No dangers of fire as its not in contact with the bulb, and its on the exterior of the tank so it doesnt look liek crap in his tank D:


Just an idea, Not sure how it work on the roof of tank as teh roof.. But im sure with some re inforcing maybe double thickness with some slats inbetween the 2 sheets you could make something feesable, and with it been card u could make holes for ventilation easily and you wouldnt cut yourself on the mesh lol


Tony

Edit, though having looked at the huge UV housing on top of your tank im not sure card would work

Did't notice that originally lol

 

[earthmarktwo]

I've actually been startled by the amount of correct information given by the workers in my local pet shops. I was told about not using sand or anything ingestible as a substrate, using proper lighting, and not feeding mealworms. I count myself lucky I didn't get any dangerous advice! Nonetheless, I have learned many valuable things by reading around these forums.

Funny you should mention that, as Brox's top has just been changed to half mesh half cardboard. The lights are still on the mesh, unfortunately. No change in the temps, unfortunately Probably cause it's only half the top. In the next couple of days, hopefully, we'll be doing a proper top with braced plywood. Then there will be no bloody mesh and nothing obstructing the lighting. If his temps don't rise then I'll be pulling out my hair!

The UV housing is awful, I know. It's an aquarium mount (ugh) that we had leftover. I hate it, especially as it fell on Bilbo's tail when he was only three and we had to have a vet amputate his tail. Every time I look at it I feel that rush of dread as when I was looking at Bilbo that day. In the long run, Brox will be getting a UV mount similar to yours. And that aquarium mount will be sent back to the depths of hell from whence it came!

 

[IzzyTony]

Hmm, that sucks about his tail =/

I've been toying with the idea of turning an old chest of drawers into a Viv just take the drawers out, make some vents and stick a bottom in and add a plastiglass sliding door. In theory it should work not sure how well it'd work with my minimal DIY skills tho lol

But i prefer wood to glass vivs anyway, I just think they look nicer. and you can do a lot more to wood. Like drill holes in etc etc (the top of izzies tank is like swiss cheese in places )

But yea, the 2 main (and of course 2 hardest) changes i'd make and suggest is getting him closer to his heat and UV sources

Tony

 

[earthmarktwo]

I was actually thinking something similar, only with a display cabinet. Just can't find one that's wide enough without weighing an absolute tonne. My mum is an absolute DIY fiend, she just doesn't have the time to make anything. And I have all the time, but none of the skills. I also prefer wood, since Brox loves to dance with his reflection and he is constantly being distracted from his food by his own reflection Wood is also a much better insulator and holds heat much better.

About the lights, I'm curious about how close is TOO close? The recommendations I've seen vary anywhere from 10 inches to 4! What would you recommend? :?:

 

[IzzyTony]

Well, I asked that very same question recently myself (regarding the UV not the heat lamp)

Common response was that with my t8 Arcadia bulb, Izzy would be fine at as little as 4-5inches (he likes to life his head right up when basking and i was paranoid he was getting too close to the bulb, but apparently not).


But from everything i've read, it seems 6-10 inches from both bulbs is ideal ; The further from the UV the weaker the rays he gets, and at certaing distances the benefit is even lost, not just lower (im sure i read that distances above 12" from the Beardie and almost all UV was wasted, not certain of that though).

All i can say is that Izzy typically has around 6 inches clearence from his UV and 8inches from his heat lamp, though if he really wanted to he could close the gap by lifing himselp up (but he doesnt so its all good).

Not sure i was much help, again.. lol

T

 

[earthmarktwo]

No, that's helpful! The picture that you saw is actually from a few days ago. I've since put him about an inch and a half closer to the lamps. The UVB housing blocks out a lot of UVB though. I've been on the hunt for a mount, but they were out of stock for the correct size, of course. That way he'll be getting the full dose of UVB instead of what manages to find its way through the obstacle course.

 

[IzzyTony]

No, that's helpful! The picture that you saw is actually from a few days ago. I've since put him about an inch and a half closer to the lamps. The UVB housing blocks out a lot of UVB though. I've been on the hunt for a mount, but they were out of stock for the correct size, of course. That way he'll be getting the full dose of UVB instead of what manages to find its way through the obstacle course.

Having read on google (just now) some ppl seem to advise that 10-12" from basking bulb is preferable, but UVB should be much close at around 6-8" from his spot. SO possibly heat lamp (providing temps are ok) can be higher than the UV bulb.


T

 

[earthmarktwo]

Well, they certainly like to make it difficult, don't they! Luckily, the ceramic housing the basking bulb is high, so he's at about the right distance from both lights