Baby with MBD - HELP!

[jil4ever]

My son has a baby Beardie (Po the Dragon Warrior) purchased from a pet store about 3 weeks before Christmas. For the past several weeks, I noticed his front feet would sometimes fold under flat against his legs, but he could pull them out and use them normally. I mentioned this at the pet store when purchasing crickets and was told that it was nothing to be concerned about as long as he could use them normally. Now, his back legs are not always working correctly. I have researched online and am almost positive it is MBD.

His current set up and care:
Repti Glo 10.0 UVB light (15 W/18") placed over the area (above screen) where he spends all of his time
75 Watt basking light placed over the same area
approximately 10 crickets per day dusted with Flukers calcium with D3 (fed greens and calcium fortified "gel water")
veggies (zucchini, turnip/kale/collard greens) a couple times a week*
fruit (apples) maybe once a week*
substrate is newspaper
* He usually doesn't eat veggies/fruit much except for a few bites taken from my hand.

Po is so precious, and my son has already lost fish and hermit crabs in recent years. He will be so upset if something happens to Po, too. I am afraid of what a vet bill will cost, and being new to my area, I don't know which vets would be reptile experts. (I researched vets for our dog when we moved last year.) Is there anything else that I can do to help turn this around?

 

[Gymgirlx]

Get rid of the Repti-glo, ASAP, and there can not be a cover over it ( it won't absorb the uvb), that could be the cause of MBD> Reptisun 10.0, TUBE, is the one to go with. Good luck with your baby!

 

[beardieman198]

Switch from the repti-glo to the repti-sun 10.0
My baby recently had mbd but I got help and got it before it got worse. If you are sure she has mbd, order some liquid calcium (absorbed better than powder) and drop some on her nose. She will usually lick it up. Also, how big is your tank? What is her basking temp? What do you use to measure the temperature?

 

[jil4ever]

I forget the tank size, but it is large enough to accommodate him once he is full-grown. The basking temp is in the 80's, and he has a climbing log to hide under on the basking side as well as a "hollow" log to hide under on the non-basking side. I measure with a digital/probe thermometer. He usually sleeps on the basking side even though I have a ceramic heater on the other side for night time. The temp where he sleeps is usually from the mid 60's to low 70's at night right now.

Where can I get the liquid calcium and how much/how often would I need to do it?

For the UVB, can I get the Reptisun light at a regular pet store? How would I set it up not "blocked" by the screen on top?

Thank you for any more help you can offer! I want to track down the needed supplies tomorrow and get him on his way to full health!!

 

[Esther19]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

The most important factors in your beardie's health are temperature and UVB exposure. Without adequate temps they do not digest their food well, and may be reluctant to eat. Your basking temps for a juvenile beardie should be between 105 and 110 degrees F. You should have a seperate bulb for basking, in addition to the UVB bulb. You can use regular household light bulbs for basking. The daylight bulbs are better than the "soft white" bulbs.

For UVB light, the recommended bulbs on this site are the Reptisun 10 tube bulb, by Zoo Med, or the Arcadia 12. The reptisun is not often found in pet stores, but can be ordered online at the best price from petmountain.com. The arcadias are available at lightyourreptiles.com. The UVB bulb should be mounted INSIDE your beardie's tank. I have an under-the-counter fixture from Wal-Mart, found in the light bulb aisle, that was around $10. I secured it on the underneath of the screen cover with zip ties.Other folks use the same fixture and mount it to the back of the tank with command strips. I was advised to have the UVB shine down vertically, hence the zip ties. The curly UVB bulbs have been known to cause eye issues with beardies. Whatever fixture you buy, please remove the plastic cover that may obstruct the UVB. The light should shine directly into the tank with nothing blocking it whatsoever.

You can get liquid calcium at bugdelite.com. The owner is a member here. She ships fast and can help with dosing.

Live feeders should be offered twice a day; as many as Po can eat in 10-15 minutes. Salad should also be offered daily, though he may not eat much of it yet. I would forego the kale, as it binds to the calcium, and use mustard greens mixed in instead. One meal per day should be supplemented with powder-the calcium 5 days and a vit./min. supplement 2 days. If you switch to the liquid calcium, make sure to dust 2 meals per week with a vitamin/mineral supplement. I always offer my beardies some water with the syringe daily, as they are not big salad eaters, nor do they drink in the bath.

Please let us know what further questions or concerns you may have. There are some awfully smart folks here who are happy to help you help little Po.

Also, please keep us posted on how you all are doing.
Esther

 

[jil4ever]

Thank you! I am on it! I can't seem to find bugdelite.com, though. I would love to get the drops from someone reputable who has the knowledge to help. When I did a random search online, there are so many varieties, I'm not sure what to get.

I am going to look for a new UVB fixture. I have one designed for reptile enclosures, so there is no plastic cover, but it is only about half the length of my tank and sits on the screen (maybe 10-12 inches above his usual basking spot). Esther, did you just cut the screen to mount a fixture with zip ties? It did not tear further due to the weight of the fixture? I am struggling with this due to the expense of the enclosure, and it would block me from being able to fully open the screen which slides out. Will the UVB lose that much effect through the screen?

I am also going to look for a higher watt basking fixture/light. My fixture - recommended by the pet store - will not take more than a 75 watt bulb. They did recently tell me that I can get a plain clamp fixture at Home Depot that will take a higher watt bulb for cheaper than the pet store ones.

 

[frostyfriend]

We use the Home Depot clamp fixtures (they're about $10) for the basking spots for our lizards, and they work fine. It's essential that you get the UVB light directly on the dragon without the screen, the screen will prevent a significant amount (if not all) of the UVB rays from reaching him.

If you're unable to find the bug delite website, there's also the Beautiful Dragons rescue that sells liquid calcium she's very helpful with dosing questions. Her site is http://www.beautifuldragons.com.

I'm not sure about your question about the screen supporting the fixture, I don't have a screen on the top of my cage.

Best of luck with your little guy!

 

[Chirple]

My room temperature is 67F and the tank is 50 gallons and I use a 75w halogen bulb in a dimmable fixture (the fixture goes to 150w) - and it's slightly dimmed to attain the right temps. I got the fixture on Amazon for pretty cheap - I think $16. A ceramic fixture was recommended to me over a plastic one. Since halogens put out more heat than regular bulbs, you can use one with a lower wattage to attain the same temperatures. Here, found the one I got http://www.amazon.com/Flukers-Repta...00QC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329807820&sr=8-1. A dimmer makes it very easy to adjust temps instead of switching bulbs in and out - which saves time, frustration, and money. I paid $16 for the lamp with built-in dimmer because a dimmer by itself would have been expensive enough it didn't make a difference.

Also, how are you measuring temperatures ? I got a temp gun for $15 and it's awesome and super-accurate, unlike some stick-on fixtures. You want one with a probe at least.

For fixing the UVB to the inside of the tank, I recently did this, myself. I bought a $9 under-counter fixture from WALMART and some "industrial strength" velcro. It's super easy - you just peel the sticky backs off the velcro and stick where needed.

Picture showing the black velcro on the back of the white fixture.

I was wary of velcro, but it feels very secure. I had a big sit-on-top of the tank fixture for the light before this, but I am opting to sell it instead of risking it.


Also, how old is the baby ? The little ones eat quite a lot, even 50 crickets is not uncommon. I would recommend looking into buying in bulk and keeping them in a tub with chow and water. Dubia roaches are also great. You will save much money buying them in bulk - little beardies are pigs ! They should be fed feeders about the size of the space between their eyes. 10 seems very low, however, until the temps are raised, the baby might be having trouble digesting - they cannot properly digest without the heat.

 

[Esther19]

I'm sorry. Here it is: http://www.bug-de-lite.com/index.html

Yes, it really will make a difference. The UVB needs to be under the screen. The $10 fixture from WalMart is light. I just made a hole in the screen bigger with a screwdriver to get the zip tie through. I have a screen that has a hinge in the middle. If your screen doesn't bend, you might want to mount your fixture on the back of the tank with command hooks.

 

[jil4ever]

OK, I have made some changes with more on the way. I have run into a few more questions, too. Thank you to everyone who is helping out!!!

First, I have a brighter basking lamp for him, but it is taking the temp up to 123 degrees (digital probe therm.). Is that too hot???? I am only leaving it on for several hours in the evening right now, fearful that it may be too hot. Before that he he has the lower basking temp (80's) during the earlier part of the day. He seems to enjoy the high temp, though. I was going to get a stand for the lamp so that it would be a little above the screen to decrease the temp. I did notice that he began opening his mouth when he was under the brighter light, a behavior I had not seen before. Any idea if this is good or bad?

I have purchased a new fixture for the UVB which I will install probably tomorrow UNDER the screen inside the tank, and I have a new Reptisun 10.0 on order which should arrive in another day or so.

I also have liquid calcium drops on order to arrive in a day or so. Does anyone know the approximate weight in grams of a baby beardie about 4 months old? I am trying to make sure I dose him correctly.

He seems to be more alert and active now, perhaps getting a bit better? The only other thing I have done so far is increase the number of crickets he gets. Tonight he even waved his arm at us twice (haven't seen him do that before), which I think I've read is a normal/healthy behavior. It was also really cute!!

 

[tf2185]

Is that too hot???? From everything I have ever read, I believe this to be too hot for the dragon ideally it shout be around 105 to 110 degrees. The solution you have would work fine but if that is to hard for you to do you could try lowing the wattage amount. My fiancee and I own three bearded dragons and for the basking light we just use a regular housebuilbs since they are so cheap. We have a 100 watt light bulb for each basking area and our temps are 107 on the basking rock. It took us awhile to find one that sent out just the right amount of heat, but in the end I think we saved a ton of money.

Any idea if this is good or bad? This is what they do to regulate there temperature. It's called gaping. It's there way of trying to cool themselves down.(If I'm wrong on this, please tell me because this is what our vet told us.) It isn't necessarily bad, but if the temps are to high they might be.



Does anyone know the approximate weight in grams of a baby beardie about 4 months old? I know this does help but I'm not to sure on this one. Different dragons grow at different rates which is why it important to know their exact weight. We picked up a cheep kitchen scale from walmart that works amazing for ours. Our weight differences have only ever been off by less than a gram than what the vet tells us. It was one of the best things we ever bought because it is so useful. If you ever need to weight your dragon to give it medications or to check on them during brumation, you don't have to guess.

Yes the arm waving thing is noraml behavior and it def. is cute. The freakiest thing is when they do they eye bulges though. (completly random thought) I about had a heart attack the first time my beardy did it to me.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Yes, those temperatures are way too hot!
The ideal basking temperatures are 95-110, max, really. What wattage of basking light are you using & how close is the bulb to your basking spot & dragon? That is correct, gaping is a way for him to release heat & cool himself. If they are excessively gaping though it means that they may be overheating. There needs to be a cooler end of around 78-82 also.
It is very hard to estimate the weight for a 4 month dragon, as there are so many variables. I would say a 4 month old should weigh at least 75-100 grams anyway, as he or she should begin to be filling out fairly well by then.


Tracie

 

[Kalyn876]

Hello! I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not:

Once you have the sufficient UVB make sure to place it so your baby can get within 6-8 inches of it, also when using magnetic ballasts you should change your bulb every 6 months. If using an electronic ballast they will give off sufficient UVB much longer.