My little Monster passed away... I miss her so much

I'm typing through floods of tears & blurry vision, so forgive me in advance for any errors.

10 weeks ago I brought home 2 rescue girls, Lotus & Monster. They were both rescued from the same owner who hadn't been feeding them & they were pretty underweight. At the time, they were guesstimated at 18-24 months old. Monster started at 16" length weighing about 250g. When she passed away today she was at 16" and 325g. I will answer all the set up/diet questions below, as I know they'll be asked... but let me just say that she was a very loved and spoiled dragon.

Today I got home from work to find my baby girl had died (not really a baby, just my baby)... for seamingly no reason. She was just laying on the warm side of her tank, just on her tummy no weird positioning or hiding. I have no idea what happened to my girl. She had displayed no signs of being sick. No black bearing or dark colors or stress marks, no drop in appetite, no lethargy, nothing. She has always been the happiest most active dragon, up until I found her today. I had even recently had her tested for Adenovirus, which was negative. The only issue she ever had was high coccidia counts, but I had just treated both my girls for that about 2 weeks ago. Lotus's fecal came back clear yesterday... I had just been waiting on Monster to give me a sample to test as well, never got that far. The only thing that was notable leading up to this was that Monster had a super runny poop 2 days ago, which was very strange for her. I had planned to take her to the vet in a few days anyway for a check-up, and she had no alarming symptoms or behavior so I didn't think runny poop was an emergency.

I suppose it's also worth noting that we moved their tanks the night before she died. We were having a hard time keeping the temps from getting too high in the enclosed room they were originally in, so we moved them into a more open area. She was doing a little bit of glass dancing/scratching after we first moved them, but after a few hours she was basking on her branch & happy as usual. She seemed 100% fine when I left this morning for work. When I found her dead, she had obviously eaten a bit from her salad bowl and there was a quarter sized spot of runny poo on her blankie.

Tank: 75gal 4'x2'x2' glass enclosure w/screen top (not housed with Lotus, she has her own tank)
Substrate: Paper towel
Light: 160w Powersun MVB on top of screen (on 13 hours daily 8am-9pm)
Distance from light: Able to get within 10-12 inches
Temps (measured w/infrared temp gun): Hot side 90-95 degrees, basking surface 100-105 degrees, cool side 80-85 degrees
Diet: Rotation of collard, turnip, & mustard greens with a rotation of butternut, acorn, and spaghetti squash. I would usually mix a little bit of a "side green" into the the staple greens, like arugula, cilantro, or bok choy. They would also get a few beardie bites and a few small pieces of blueberry or strawberry. They get dubias every three days, and they've had some wax worm treats a few times.
Supplements: Calcium w/out D3 twice per week, calcium with D3 once per week, multivitamin once or twice per week. I would usually give them a few drops of probiotic with each live feeding too.
Outside/natural sunlight time: 15-20mins every 1-2 days
Hydration: 20-25min soak in 100-105 degree water every other day. She would never would take oral fluids, but she seemed well hydrated from the soaks either way

Can anyone offer me any possibilities at all as to what on earth may have happened to my little girl??? I tried so hard to do everything right. These were the most spoiled little dragons on earth. Now my worst nightmare has come true and I have no clue why. I'm absolutely terrified that I'll randomly find my other girl dead out of nowhere too. My vet is going to do a necropsy for free tomorrow, but if he can't figure out what happened just by looking then I probably won't be willing to pay the extra $400 for X-rays and blood work to look into it further, as I'm taking my surviving dragon Lotus in to have X-rays and blood work just in case. I've already spoken to my friend Cheryl at Rio Reptiles/BeardedDragon.co and she's just as baffled as I am. I'm waiting to hear back from Tracie as well. Any help, suggestions, ideas, etc. would be greatly appreciated (honestly I think I've ruled our the obvious things like impaction, lightening bugs, etc.)

I can't believe how much this hurts. I can't stop crying, I feel so sick. This is definitely one of the lowest points in my life. Even though she was "just a reptile," losing her has been just as painful if not more painful than the humans I've lost in my life. I'm in absolute shock that this happened to me out of NOWHERE when I tried so hard to make everything perfect. I am pretty incapacitated right now, I can't eat, I have a ton of very important projects I need to be focusing on at work, and I don't even know how I'm going to get out of bed in the morning. Please help me, I need to know why in order to find some closure... it just hurts so bad. I've had this nightmare so many times, I just keep hoping I'll wake up from this one too.

RIP Monster (? - 6/12/12) I love you so much, my baby girl

Christina,

I've gone over everything you've done & there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you took care of Monster. It's as baffling to me as it is to Cheryl, hopefully the vet can find something internal that was off, but really, you were a great beardie mommy & Monster was greatly loved & wonderfully taken care of. So I can only say how sorry I am to hear of this, my heart is breaking with yours. I'm just so shocked to hear of this. We've talked about your care of your dragons for awhile now & I kept reassuring you that you were doing the right thing & you were. The way you've taken care of Monster & Lotus is wonderful. I"m so sorry you've lost your girl. Just know that I"m thinking of you and please let me know what the vet has to say about this. It's a good idea to have the xrays & bloodwork done on Lotus, too, just to reassure you that Lotus is ok.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
and love,
Deb

I'm so sorry for your loss. Sometimes these things just happen. Hopefully the vet will be able to give you some closure, but it certainly wasn't something you did, you were offering her wonderful care. It's never easy losing something you love. Will you let us know if the vet finds something? My thoughts are with you, I hope your other little guy isn't affected.

Hello Christina,

It was definitely nothing that you did! I am so very sorry for your loss.
The only immediate thing that comes to mind is renal or liver issues. There really is not much else it could be, plus, you don't know much about her previous care.
XOXO,

Tracie

Hi Christina....I am also so very sorry about Monster. It's so devastating to lose a pet, I get really sick and numb myself when a loved pet passes, and I've told my friends that I wish that I wasn't this way, it can leave you so weak. You will get through this....though it's SO painful at first you can be comforted by knowing that it was sudden, so there was seemingly no pain + suffering involved. Just a big aching heart for you. I wanted to ask, do the dragons get free time outside their tanks, or even out in the yard ? There's a slight chance in every house and yard of a toxic bug/ spider lurking. One recent poster had a dragon pass after eating a small toad. In these cases there is often a black beard as well, but you never know if something strange was eaten. Even strange objects around the house/yard like a coin, stone, small toy, etc. These guys love to try anything. In all likelihood,though,Tracie is probably right about possible liver/renal failure. One other thing I wanted to mention, but not related to Mpnster's death, the 160 Powersun is recommended to be placed about 15 inches from the basking platform, I've used them and they get pretty hot, and they do provide adequate UVB from that distance. So, nothing more to say except again, I'm so sorry. I hope you get through your day, I know it will be tough.

I'm so sorry to hear about your girl. I know first hand how debilitating it can be. Just know how happy she was to have such a great mama and that she is now at tbe rainbow bridge where she is very happily waiting to see u again!

sweetiepie9":1j0ngyuw said:

Christina,

I've gone over everything you've done & there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you took care of Monster. It's as baffling to me as it is to Cheryl, hopefully the vet can find something internal that was off, but really, you were a great beardie mommy & Monster was greatly loved & wonderfully taken care of. So I can only say how sorry I am to hear of this, my heart is breaking with yours. I'm just so shocked to hear of this. We've talked about your care of your dragons for awhile now & I kept reassuring you that you were doing the right thing & you were. The way you've taken care of Monster & Lotus is wonderful. I"m so sorry you've lost your girl. Just know that I"m thinking of you and please let me know what the vet has to say about this. It's a good idea to have the xrays & bloodwork done on Lotus, too, just to reassure you that Lotus is ok.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
and love,
Deb

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Thank you Deb... you've helped me out so much with my girls since I've known you, and I very much appreciate that. I know you know how I feel, like after you lost your Sweetie girl. It's just not fair though. So many other people seem to be able to keep their beardies on loose substrate, co-habitatating, eating pinky mice with meal worms and maybe a bit of iceburg lettuce with carrots, have no UV lighting, and don't give them any calcium/vitamins and somehow a ton of these dragons seem to have been better off than my little girl was... even though I put everything I had into caring for her. I just don't understand.

earthmarktwo":1j0ngyuw said:

I'm so sorry for your loss. Sometimes these things just happen. Hopefully the vet will be able to give you some closure, but it certainly wasn't something you did, you were offering her wonderful care. It's never easy losing something you love. Will you let us know if the vet finds something? My thoughts are with you, I hope your other little guy isn't affected.

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Thanks for your sympathy, it means a lot to me. I will definitely let you guys know what the vet's findings are. I really hope my other girl Lotus is ok too... but I'm terrified for her, though there's no logical reason to be - but there's really nothing logical about any of this. I just want to know why.

Drache613":1j0ngyuw said:

Hello Christina,

It was definitely nothing that you did! I am so very sorry for your loss.
The only immediate thing that comes to mind is renal or liver issues. There really is not much else it could be, plus, you don't know much about her previous care.
XOXO,

Tracie

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Hey Tracie, thank you as well for all the help you've offered me in figuring out how to best care for my girls. You're right... I have no clue how they were kept before, but I do know that I'm so glad she spent her last few months with me being as spoiled and loved as possible. I can't thank you, Deb, and Cheryl enough for all of your help. When I first joined here, I made sure to immediately seek out the "experts" who were willing to assist me with making my little girls' lives perfect - and you all went above and beyond to help someone you didn't even know. I'm sure Monster's life was made better by it, thank you. It's also nice to know that you all think it wasn't anything within my control or anything I did wrong... I just tried so hard.

AHBD":1j0ngyuw said:

Hi Christina....I am also so very sorry about Monster. It's so devastating to lose a pet, I get really sick and numb myself when a loved pet passes, and I've told my friends that I wish that I wasn't this way, it can leave you so weak. You will get through this....though it's SO painful at first you can be comforted by knowing that it was sudden, so there was seemingly no pain + suffering involved. Just a big aching heart for you. I wanted to ask, do the dragons get free time outside their tanks, or even out in the yard ? There's a slight chance in every house and yard of a toxic bug/ spider lurking. One recent poster had a dragon pass after eating a small toad. In these cases there is often a black beard as well, but you never know if something strange was eaten. Even strange objects around the house/yard like a coin, stone, small toy, etc. These guys love to try anything. In all likelihood,though,Tracie is probably right about possible liver/renal failure. One other thing I wanted to mention, but not related to Mpnster's death, the 160 Powersun is recommended to be placed about 15 inches from the basking platform, I've used them and they get pretty hot, and they do provide adequate UVB from that distance. So, nothing more to say except again, I'm so sorry. I hope you get through your day, I know it will be tough.

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Thank you... it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who completely shuts down over something like this. You put it pretty precisely into words - I feel so weak. To answer your question, she got outside time but only sitting on my chest. She was never allowed to roam the yard, as I rent and I don't know if they use any chemicals here. She was allowed to roam the house though. We would always watch her until she decided where she wanted to settle (she had her favorite places). We try to keep the areas the dragons go in really clean, but sometimes she would sneak behind the window blinds or into a dusty corner. I see different kinds of little bugs/spiders around the house pretty often & I try to get rid of them but they always pop back up. So I suppose it's possible she could've eaten something toxic. I wondered myself if maybe a poisonous spider got into her tank and bit her... I do live in Texas, home of the deadly Brown Recluse. But I checked all over her tank and her body, couldn't find any signs of a bite. I think the super runny poo she had in the couple of days before may fall in line with the organ failure theory, but I'm not sure. As for the Powersun, sorry let me clarify: They could get 10-12 inches from it if they wanted to, like on the highest point of their branch. But 95% of the time they preferred to bask at a lower point on top of their hides, which is about 16" from the light. I was also under the impression that I needed to let them get a bit closer than normal because I had the lights on top of a screen mesh lid, which I thought would filter out some of the UV. I checked their temps almost every day, and they were getting quite warm recently so I started using a lampstand to get the light up about 3-4" higher and that's also why we moved them to the more open room too. Their temps were never unacceptable, just too close to the maximum end for comfort. When I checked their temps a few hours after moving the tanks, they were perfect. Should I still do something different with the Powersun light for my other dragon Lotus?

Scrammy":1j0ngyuw said:

I'm so sorry to hear about your girl. I know first hand how debilitating it can be. Just know how happy she was to have such a great mama and that she is now at tbe rainbow bridge where she is very happily waiting to see u again!

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Thank you for your kind words... I poured everything into being the best "dragon mom" I could be for her. Even though this hurts so bad, I wouldn't take back a single second of my time or a single penny that I invested in her care. She was an awesome little dragon, with tons of personality. I'll miss her so much - but I was very lucky to have known her during her last few months.

Hi Christina,
The only thing I'd say from your previous post, is if you have a lampstand & Lotus won't try to get out of her tank, then take the top off & leave the bulb at 15" from the top of her heat at the basking spot. That's what I do & then they get full benefit of the UVB in the bulb. Other than that, you know you always did the greatest for your girls. I'm hoping the vet will see something when he looks into Monster, but Tracie may be right and if that's thru, that's on the prev owner, not on you. My Angel died of liver failure, didn't have a clue that there was something wrong, but that was also on the previous owner as she'd never had UVB. So if that's the issue, we know who to blame & it sure isn't you!
Love
Deb

Thanks Deb... as for the lights, I would be worried that Lotus would escape - she's great jumper (Monster was even better, fearless)! Lotus's screen lid is about 1/4" grate so I'm not too worried about her not getting enough UV. I'm actually going to be switching to Reptisun 10.0 linear tube w/a basking bulb soon, since I can put the basking bulb on a dimmer & it'll be a lot easier to regulate the temps during the 110+ degree summers here in TX. I'll use my Powersuns during the cooler seasons (that means like below 80 degrees here) so they don't go to waste.

I'm at the vet right now, and the doctor is performing the necropsy in another room as I type. He wanted to try to figure out what went wrong with Monster before doing the X-rays & bloodwork on Lotus to make sure there was nothing specifically contagious he should be looking for. We've decided to get our little Monster girl cremated, and we're going to order this little box for her ashes so she can always be with us...

http://www.jasonshanaman.com/#frogs-and-lizards/15

That's a great idea about the light, so look for an under counter fixture for the Reptisun 10, that way it's inside the tank & Lotus will get full UVB & no heat for the summertime. Then you just use the done the power sun was in for the basking light & a regular household white bulb will do, you'll just have to figure out the wattage to get the temps you want. I'm so glad you're going to have Monster with you, I did the same thing with Roger, he's still on my dining table & I do talk to him, even though that sounds weird. I put him there so he could see our babies, too.

Thanks for keeping in touch,
Deb

Necropsy Results...

Apparently there was a rupture somewhere in or around her heart that caused her pericardium to fill with blood, so it put too much pressure on her heart & it just stopped beating. The doctor said it was likely very quick and painless. They've never seen anything like this happen in a reptile before, just a freak occurrence unfortunately. They'll be sending off some tissue samples and such to research labs to see if they can figure out anything else concerning what actually caused the rupture. I'm at much more peace now knowing what happened, that it wasn't anything I did wrong, and that my baby girl didn't suffer. It sucks that such a rare occurrence had to happen to my dragon, but it is what it is. The doctor said Monster looked perfect in every other way. Apparently she also had over 30 eggs developing in her ovaries as well, but they didn't have shells yet so she was a good while away from any egg laying & it wasn't compromising her health at all.

Lotus's appointment went well. The doctor said her X-rays looked perfect. We're just waiting a day or so for the bloodwork results to come back.

If anyone is interested in pictures of the necropsy then let me know & I can email them to you. I won't post them here as they're a bit graphic. Well I suppose that's that... maybe now I can bring myself to eat and get some sleep. Thanks for all the support everyone, it's been a rough 24 hours.

So sorry for your loss, glad you figured out the cause. Hugs.

I am so sorry and saddened to hear about your little girl I can't imagine the pain you are going through, but I am sure someday I will and I too will be heartbroken.
Just know that you were a wonderful mommy to your girl and I am sure she knew she was loved very much.
Take care and get extra snuggles from your other little girl.
Hugs,
Kelly

RIP Monster <3 I sent you a PM

Thank you for the sympathies everyone, I really appreciate it. My friends and family have expressed their condolences, but I know it's 100% sincere coming from all of you because I don't think anyone could truly understand unless they have a beardie themselves. I'm still barely coping... there's just so many feelings to work out in my head, but only time can heal something like this.

I know it sounds morbid, but the doctor who did Monster's necropsy said they found some blueberry pieces in her tummy. I was so glad to hear that she had one of her favorite snacks right before she passed away. She must've been happy and feeling fine right up until the very end.

I'll probably start a memorial thread for her eventually when I'm ready, but I wanted to post some pics of her here for all of you to see. Thank you all again for your support.















Here's a video of her eating her salad like a good little dragon, if you click on it then it should play in another window...