Young Beardie dramas, advice apreciated

[Medusah]

Hey everyone,
First time beardie owner here (have owned a coastal python) and would love some advice on where I can improve with helping my little guy out.
First I would like to say I have gotten SO much info from this forum, you all seem to know so much!
I got my little one from Amazng Amazon early March, he(?) was the biggest out of the lot at a whopping 14g! Was guessing he was born at the start of the year..? Eddie is currently only at 25g now and this is worrying me.. We have been going through a bit if drama this month, it started with Eddie not eating at all for 5 days while he was going through a full body shed, which I read was quite normal. He got lots of baths and was still drinking, had a little bit of smushed crickets and veggies if he felt like it. After that he started eating again but not as much as before the shed.. So after researching I found out that my uv globe reptile one was a ****ty brand! So I ordered a zoomed T8 reptisun 10.0 tube to replace it with which I have installed now(has a reflector and no cover). 2 days before it arrives Eddie fell out of his fake tree he sleeps in and started limping (cue me getting sick from stress right about now) so off to my vet who specialises in exotic creatures (in Ballarat, victoria) he had an x ray, no breaks thank god but pretty severe bruising in his back right leg near the hip and his front right wrist area. I was told that his bones looked quite weak He got a loxicom shot and the swelling went down a fair bit over the next few days but returned after that. So i took him back 5 days after the first visit for a follow up anti inflam shot. During this time Eddie has only eaten a max of 15 crickets/wooodies a day, sometime its only 5 or 6.. And a mouth full of greens. The swelling looks quite good today, not much swelling compared to how it was but he's still shuffling around, not putting weight on the sore legs ( he can move them) and just rests all day under his lights, napping on and off.
I have been dusting his insects with calcium and D3 powder 3 times a week (more since his fall) and multi vitamins once a week. His temps (taken with a digital thermometer with a probe) are 40 degrees C under his basking light, mid to high 30s around that area 20-30 cms away from the uvb tube, cool side gets to mid to low 20s. He's always up in the warm platform at the moment, not wanting to move. Sits at low 20s over night. I've just increased the light time to 15 hours as I just read tonight 12.5 hours isn't enough!
I guess my main concern is how he has only put on 2g of weight in nearly a month, which would be from him not eating enough, maybe from all the stress. I've taken anything he can climb on out of the tank and have just placed a sheet of sand mat (what i line the tank with) over some larger rocks so he can get closer or further to his lights without having to climb up things.
Has anyone had any experience with swelling? Is there any more I can be doing to help the little guy? I feed him in a smaller container so he doesn't have to chase any bugs around since he can't run atm..
Oh and he still poops well
I'll try attach a few pics of his house, ( all furniture has been removed from it until he is better)

basking spot

4ft by 4ft by 2ft

I should probably mention it has been a week since his fall..

 

[kingofnobbys]

. 2 days before it arives Eddie fell out of his fake tree he sleeps in and started limping (cue me getting sick from stress right about now) so off to my vet who specialises in exotic creatures (in Ballarat, victoria) he had an x ray, no breaks thank god but pretty severe bruising in his back right leg near the hip and his front right wrist area. I was told that his bones looked quite weak He got a loxicom shot and the swelling went down a fair bit over the next few days but returned after that. So i took him back 5 days after the first visit for a follow up anti inflam shot. During this time Eddie has only eaten a max of 15 crickets/wooodies a day, sometime its only 5 or 6.. And a mouth full of greens. The swelling looks quite good today, not much swelling compared to how it was but he's still shuffling around, not putting weight on the sore legs ( he can move them) and just rests all day under his lights, napping on and off.
I have been dusting his insects with calcium and D3 powder 3 times a week (more since his fall) and multi vitamins once a week. His temps are 40 degrees C under his basking light, mid to high 30s around that area, cool side gets to mid to low 20s. He's always up in the warm platform at the moment, not wanting to move. Sits at low 20s over night. I've just increased the light time to 15 hours as I just read tonight 12.5 hours isn't enough!
I guess my main concern is how he has only put on 2g of weight in nearly a month, which would be from him not eating enough, maybe from all the stress. I've taken anything he can climb on out of the tank and have just placed a sheet of sand mat (what i line the tank with) over some larger rocks so he can get closer or further to his lights without having to climb up things.
Has anyone had any experience with swelling? Is there any more I can be doing to help the little guy? I feed him in a smaller container so he doesn't have to chase any bugs around since he can't run atm..
Oh and he still poops well
I'll try attach a few pics of his house, ( all furniture has been removed from it until he is better)

basking spot

4ft by 4ft by 2ft

I think you can place the blame on the original elcheapo shopbrand compact UVB globes.
Insufficient UVB and likely also inadequate UVA.

I'm surprised the vet didn't give you a little bottle of CalciVet and a syringe with ordered to give him CalciVet each day by mouth to help build up his calcium and VitD levels ....

http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/vetafarm_calcivet_liquid_calcium_supplement

Can you keep him overnight, it's going to be very chilly for the next week or so with this first real blast of winter in SE Australia (I'm in Newcastle NSW and it's blowing a gale outside and bloody freezing (about 12oC but feels lots colder).

All mine have warmed tanks and tubs ( I have 7W heatpad set up under all my gang jumbo hubbahuts ) , I have this kind of heatpad set up, see viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976 .
For my beardies I run the heat pads at 36-37oC 24/7.

If it's really chilly overnight in your house (heating off while you are in bed) I would seriously consider a ceramic heat element controlled by a switching thermostat with the probe placed near his sleeping spot / hide. Keep his hide just the size for him to curl up under it , will stay worm better.

I think keeping him warm overnight will help with healing , and will help with his growth too. This was the advice I was given when one of my BTS broke his arm as juvenile.

Are you giving 3 meals per day of live insects ? If not I suggest you do so. He needs LOTS of high quality live insect protein and dietary calcium every day.

See my thread about Peppa and Toothless , you'll likely spot lots of helpful things you can do for your little spikey baby. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=221328

Keep us posted on how he goes.... I'm betting an few weeks you''ll be here telling us he's eating you out of house and home and sending you broke and growing like crazy .....

 

[Medusah]

I sure hope so.. My pets are my children so I worry alot.. I have a reptile radiator in the lower left corner of the tank there which is on a thermostat for 25degrees. I'll check out your posts though, thanks.
Also I feed him 3 times a day when I'm home which is 3days a week. Otherwise work only permits me to feed him 2 times a day..

 

[kingofnobbys]

I sure hope so.. My pets are my children so I worry alot.. I have a reptile radiator in the lower left corner of the tank there which is on a thermostat for 25degrees. I'll check out your posts though, thanks.
Also I feed him 3 times a day when I'm home which is 3days a week. Otherwise work only permits me to feed him 2 times a day..

25oC overnight should be OK ...

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, that's a big beautiful vivarium you've made [ or bought ] I hope Eddie perks up soon. A few things....beardies don't go off food much when they shed [ I've raised tons of babies over a 20 yr. period ] so something else was going on there. Probably was not getting enough uvb for some reason, possibly a bit dehydrated as well. How do you hydrate him ?

Although some keepers start babies out in a large tank, it's really best to keep it simple and not too tall. Here is the type of bin I used to raise babies, all ate like monsters, including through shedding time. Get Eddie in a smaller enclosure like this where he doesn't have the risk of falling. Yes, they can fall in the wild but would generally land on dirt, sand, grass + soil, not on a hard floor . So here's how babies are best set up, or something similar. Lots of climbing areas but not too high.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29895/full

I would not get any more shots for him....this can cause more stress. Where exactly is his swelling ? Can you post pics ?

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hi there, that's a big beautiful vivarium you've made [ or bought ] I hope Eddie perks up soon. A few things....beardies don't go off food much when they shed [ I've raised tons of babies over a 20 yr. period ] so something else was going on there. Probably was not getting enough uvb for some reason, possibly a bit dehydrated as well. How do you hydrate him ?

Although some keepers start babies out in a large tank, it's really best to keep it simple and not too tall. Here is the type of bin I used to raise babies, all ate like monsters, including through shedding time. Get Eddie in a smaller enclosure like this where he doesn't have the risk of falling. Yes, they can fall in the wild but would generally land on dirt, sand, grass + soil, not on a hard floor . So here's how babies are best set up, or something similar. Lots of climbing areas but not too high.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29895/full

I would not get any more shots for him....this can cause more stress. Where exactly is his swelling ? Can you post pics ?

I've raised all four of my beardies and my 2 bluetongues in 100L stackable tubs , moving them to adult size tanks (all homemade by me) 4ft x 2ft footprint as they became adults.
As AHBD suggests , this set up works great for hatchlings and juveniles and all mine have thrived.

 

[Medusah]

He gets at least 3 baths a week, sometimes he drinks other times he doesn't, I mist him with a squirty bottle every day once to let him know water is coming then super lightly drip dropplets on his mouth, if he doesn't drink I offer again later in the day. He drank heaps during his shed, but no food. I'm blaming the reptile one tube for that one.. Its been in since last Friday so here's hoping on some improvement.. The swelling has gone down today so hopefully no more vet visits for a bit.. He is a stress head like his mum..
I'll try take pics tomorrow, he's sleeping now. But the swelling is mainly in his right wrist and high oh his right leg near the hip.

 

[kingofnobbys]

He gets at least 3 baths a week, sometimes he drinks other times he doesn't, I mist him with a squirty bottle every day once to let him know water is coming then super lightly drip dropplets on his mouth, if he doesn't drink I offer again later in the day. He drank heaps during his shed, but no food. I'm blaming the reptile one tube for that one.. Its been in since last Friday so here's hoping on some improvement.. The swelling has gone down today so hopefully no more vet visits for a bit.. He is a stress head like his mum..
I'll try take pics tomorrow, he's sleeping now. But the swelling is mainly in his right wrist and high oh his right leg near the hip.

Yet another victim of ReptileOne UV lights.... There was a chap on the Central Coast (near Gosford) who was also a breeder who had the exact same dodgey UV lights and boy were they bad (if they lasted 2 months you were doing well ....).

That big Ebay shop who sell UVB bulbs in green boxes
These are the ones http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reptile-Full-Spectrum-UVA-UVB-Bulbs-2-5-10-UV-lighting-Lizard-Turtle-Snake-/181060840451?var=&hash=item2a28112c03:m
use the same junk too.

After George broke his arm ( using similar bulbs) , I decided to ditch those brands , and swapped over to 13W UVB150s for the skinks and then originally 13W UVB200s and finally 26W UVB200s for the beardies. NO MORE PROBLEMS.

baths
Unless he is soiling himself 3 baths per week is pretty excessive .

Are you hoping he'll go to the loo in the bath (common practice for people to try to train their beardied to poo while in the luke warm bath) and if they drink the bath water BEFORE doing the poo that's a bonus. If he drinks in the bath and enjoys having a soak in the luke warm water and swims about and splashes about , and poos there too .... then continue I guess.

I'm pleased for you that your little spikey mate is on the mend.... I guess you are mostly alright based on that.

 

[Medusah]

He doesn't poop in his baths, I just read that bathing babies alot is good since they shed alot.. Should I only do it when he is shedding?

So this morning he wouldn't eat his woodies (his favourite) just sat in the little tub I feed him in and tried to nap on me.. No interest at all! I mushed up 6 crickets, a leaf of pak Choy and a bit of parsley, few drops of water and some calcium powder and he took it straight away.. I'm so confused.. How long should the light be on before I offer food? They were on for nearly 2 hours today before his feed..
I'm trying to attach pics but the file manager us playing up.. I'll keep trying.
The swelling is really good today but he's still not using both his right legs much

 

[Medusah]

Slight swelling still I'm his upper right leg near the hip and right wrist, best it's looked since the accident.

After munching my cricket smush.

 

[kingofnobbys]

He doesn't poop in his baths, I just read that bathing babies alot is good since they shed alot.. Should I only do it when he is shedding? <<< I only bath shedding skinks, beardies only if there is bit a stubborn shed they can't get off themselves.... all a beardie needs are some good sized very pointy twigs and some rough surfaced bits of bark (I collect the ones that fall off my bluegum)), they work great and I've rearly bathed any beardies (even hatchlings) to help with shedding.

So this morning he wouldn't eat his woodies (his favourite) just sat in the little tub I feed him in and tried to nap on me.. No interest at all! I mushed up 6 crickets, a leaf of pak Choy and a bit of parsley, few drops of water and some calcium powder and he took it straight away.. I'm so confused.. How long should the light be on before I offer food? They were on for nearly 2 hours today before his feed.. <<<< I had my beardie hatchlings' first meals at about 10am, my lights come on 6am.
I also discovered for a few weeks my little guys Peppa and Toothless were filling up on the shedded buk choi greens mixed with grated carrot and grated sweet potatoe and chopped raw peas, so I held the greens and salad back until their last live insect meal of the day and left the greens and salad with them overnight , regularly saw them up even after the lights were out for a nibble.
I'm trying to attach pics but the file manager us playing up.. I'll keep trying.
The swelling is really good today but he's still not using both his right legs much

 

[Medusah]

Thanks for all the info everyone.
He didn't eat anything else today.. My partner who was home sick tried to feed him woodies twice more through out the afternoon and still nothing..
It's so hard to know what to do, taking him to the vets stresses him out and may even be the reason he isn't eating much.. I'm at a loss of what to do to try help. Should I maybe ask the vet for pain killers? Are there any safe for dragons?

 

[AHBD]

He should heal on his own in time. Painkillers are usually not needed since small lizards are more difficult to dose and you can't really get an exact amount to be given. It's up to you though. But have you moved him to a smaller enclosure temporarily like I showed you and gotten a good uvb bulb ? He really can't function in the big viv right now. Is there any days of natural sun that you cantake him outside ? But please do get a good uvb bulb + smaller plastic bin to live in for now.

Offer water + baby food chcken, green beans + squash mixed with a pinch of calcium powder for now. Also, try smashing an insect until the guts come out a bit [ I know it's gross ! ] and lightly rub it ob his snout....sometimes that can get them to eat. Or get a good vet quality food supplement like Oxbow Critical Care [ not dog food though, which some vets prescribe ]

 

[Medusah]

He should heal on his own in time. Painkillers are usually not needed since small lizards are more difficult to dose and you can't really get an exact amount to be given. It's up to you though. But have you moved him to a smaller enclosure temporarily like I showed you and gotten a good uvb bulb ? He really can't function in the big viv right now. Is there any days of natural sun that you cantake him outside ? But please do get a good uvb bulb + smaller plastic bin to live in for now.

Offer water + baby food chcken, green beans + squash mixed with a pinch of calcium powder for now. Also, try smashing an insect until the guts come out a bit [ I know it's gross ! ] and lightly rub it ob his snout....sometimes that can get them to eat. Or get a good vet quality food supplement like Oxbow Critical Care [ not dog food though, which some vets prescribe ]

Ok I'll try be patient and let him try heal with no more stressful experiences.. Do you recommend minimal handling untill he is better? We go outside and get sun a few times a day for a good 15 mins when I'm not working (sat arvo through to Tuesday) and if the weather is clear. He just sits on my lap and i keep the wind off him or I set up a tub for him.
I have a smaller tub I can put him to live in but will have to wait untill Saturday for me to set it up as I'm in the middle of my two 12 hr shifts right now.. I had 10 days off before Easter and the morning I had to go back to work was when i found him limping -_-. But I can either set it up on the platform or bring the lights down to the lower level. He hasn't left his basking platform for quite a few days now so I'm not too worried about him falling off anything before then.
Sorry if I've missed something but is my zoomed reptisun T8 10.0 30 watt fluro tube not one of the bests lights you can get? Where can I find better ones?https://www.amazingamazon.com.au/zoo-med-repti-sun.html this is what I have and where I git it from.
I'll pick up some baby food and more veggies tomorrow if he doesn't eat again.. Sounds easier then trying to mortar and pestel insects! I will happily try smushing guts out though I've had to cut open (dead thawed) rats heads before to get my python to eat. He died on valentines day this year from IBD.. Had him for 13 years. I think this is why I'm freaking out about Eddie.. Still a bit wounded from it all.
Thanks for all this info!

 

[CooperDragon]

If he's tolerating it, I'd keep bringing him outside. The natural sunlight is great for them - none of our artificial lights can compare yet.

The ReptiSun T8 is a decent bulb. It should sit about 15cm (no further than 20cm) from his basking spot to provide adequate UVB. If you can find a T5 tube it's higher output and a better choice than the T8.