Reptiworm testing please(not as good as phoenix?)

[wolfncoyote]

Okay.. now I know we all want what's best for our little dragons.. and Dr. Phoenix has told us many times that their worms have the best calhos ratio. Has anyone tested the reptiworms? Reptiworms pricing is a little better, that 20% off coupon code really helps, but I'm beginning to question whether or not I'm getting what I'm paying for.. I've read on reptiworms.com that their worms have the same calcium to phosphorous ratio as phoenix worms but Dr. Phoenix says this hasn't been confirmed by lab studies.

Reptiworms doesn't seemed to have performed any nutritional analysis on their product. In fact, Reptiworms has copied data and information from the Phoenix Worms website ("...They have the ideal 1.5:1 Calciumhosphorus ratio" and "...contain high amounts of lauric acid which helps battle diseases such as Coccidia...").

Honestly all I want is what's best for Ryu... Is there anyone out there who can put these worms to the test? I wanna know if reptiworms really are identical to phoenix worms.. Granted, so far Ryu munches on reptiworms like they're candy but I'd still like to know if there really is a difference between Phoenix Worms and Reptiworms... the Great Debate continues!!...http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=137767

 

[Dr. Phoenix]

Dear wolfncoyote,

Thanks for your interest in this important question on feeder safety.

It is the responsibility of the producer to pay for lab tests to determine the nutrients in their feeder. We sent Phoenix Worms to be analyzed by an independent lab in 2004, a year BEFORE we began selling the worms. We did this to ensure that Phoenix Worms could be safely fed to animals and we published complete nutritional data for our feeder. For the same reason, Animal Specialties Inc. should provide accurate and complete nutritional data for their Reptiworms.

Craig Sheppard, Ph.D.
President, Insect Science Resource LLC
Professor Emeritus
http://www.phoenixworm.com

 

[wolfncoyote]

I do find it a little odd that the Reptiworms people haven't responded to this post...

 

[HKzForDayz]

I do find it a little odd that the Reptiworms people haven't responded to this post...

The reptiworms producers aren't as avid posters on here as dr.phoenix.

I'm not defending them, but for all we know they have had them tested and just havent posted the results. I would contact them directly about that and not through a forum.

One thing to keep in mind is Dr.phoenix is the creator of phoenix worms so he will be a bit biased. They are a great feeder though, however I myself use reptiworms because of the price difference. If they lab test or not has yet to be confirmed, it would be nice to see somebody's direct contact with them about this matter. Whether they do or not does not matter to me though, I dust them anyways and the dust and reptiworms together is still cheaper then phoenix worms.

 

[Dr. Phoenix]

The reptiworms producers aren't as avid posters on here as dr.phoenix...

One thing to keep in mind is Dr.phoenix is the creator of phoenix worms so he will be a bit biased.

Actually, we have posted 78 times in 58 months (since January 8, 2006); Reptiworms has posted 151 times in less than 4 months (since August 12, 2010)! We are biased in that we believe Phoenix Worms is a superior product. That opinion is based on years of breeder feeding trials, years of research, and independent lab analyses which ensure safety. Here is additional info that we posted recently concerning the misinformation that all BSF larvae are the same:

Phoenix Worms, Calciworms and Reptiworms are the same species. However, they have different nutritional values. As the scientific community knows, many aspects of production of these feeders impact their nutritional value. For instance, the ratio of calcium to phosphorus that these feeders contain is critical to your pet’s long term health.

Phoenix Worms have a balanced ratio of 1.5 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorous and can be safely fed as a staple. This balanced ratio was determined by an independent lab analysis. Calciworms has published that their ratio is 3.28 to 1, also determined by an independent lab, and they advise that Calciworms are "not intended to be fed as a sole ration." An unbalanced ratio may lead to hypercalcemia and renal failure. For more information, go to http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/reptiles ... olicbd.htm.

Reptiworms doesn't seemed to have performed any nutritional analysis on their product. In fact, Reptiworms has copied data and information from the Phoenix Worms website ("...They have the ideal 1.5:1 Calciumhosphorus ratio" and "...contain high amounts of lauric acid which helps battle diseases such as Coccidia...").

Phoenix Worms are produced using a carefully researched process that ensures the correct balance of calcium and phosphorous. Without an independent lab analysis, the nutritional content of Reptiworms is unknown. We encourage owners of pets with sensitive dietary needs to research the calcium phosphorus ratio of feeders to ensure the health of their animals.

Craig Sheppard, Ph.D.
President, Insect Science Resource LLC
Professor Emeritus
http://www.phoenixworm.com

 

[wolfncoyote]

I can't argue with Dr. Phoenix when it's made that clear. I do not doubt at all that any owner of a product will be biased to the product. That's why the entire point of this post was to call attention to the non biased informataion AKA Independent Lab Studies of reptiworms. Of course when put side by side they'll both argue their product is better. I'm simply saying that so far only one of the two has provided PROOF. Yes reptiworms are cheaper. I agree.. but using reptiworms AND dusting could lead to a problem with too much calcium which yes can be a major health hazard. then again it could be fine, but you'll never know if they don't post proof with proper information and that's my concern. I've said it before and I'll say it again, all I honestly want is whats best for Ryu.. NOT what's best for my pocket.. if your pocket is taking priority over the health of your dragon that's your choice. I however am willing to spend the extra couple dollars a week to ensure my dragon stays healthy. I knew spending money was going to happen when I got Ryu and I'm sure not about to let "whats cheaper" get in the way of properly caring for my dragon.

 

[HKzForDayz]

My pocket is not by any means taking priority to the health of my dragon and im kind of offended that you said so. I spend 50 dollars every two weeks on worms, and 40dollars every two weeks on crix. And this is on a 9.50.an hour job supporting myself all on my own. My dragons are in superb health. As i stated i still dust, though not near as often as they are more calciun rich food. I dust without d3 usually when i dust those. D3 when i dust crix. What in saying is just bc they have not shoen proof on this forum does not mean they havent had them independently tested. What im saying is ask them directly for proof its been independently tested.

 

[wolfncoyote]

I had no intention of offending you my friend, when you had mentioned you go with reptiworms because they are cheaper I merely meant to suggest that maybe price shouldnt be the deciding factor on your food. And it isnt just that they havent posted it on these forums, its not on their website either. What kinda food doesn't come with a fact based nutrition guide? More and more everyday people are learning new things about bearded dragons that cause them to live longer. As it has been stated we know for sure that phoenix worms claim they can be the main part of a dragons diet. Calciworms clearly state they -shouldnt- be the main part of a dragons diet as quoted by Dr. Phoenix in an above post. I just want some clear cut data to show me what reptiworms contains. I don't think I'm asking too much... Reptiworms posts on these forums near daily.. I didn't think this to be a bad way to request such data as it's public and I doubt I'm the only one that wants to know. Again I meant no offense to you in the least. I care for my dragon.. and just as I would for my child... I'd like to compare nutrition labels to know exactly what my little one is putting into their body.

 

[HKzForDayz]

Just spoke with someone from reptiworms. Their worms have been independently tested and they will be sending proof. I will post when i receive.

 

[HKzForDayz]

Just spoke with someone from reptiworms. Their worms have been independently tested and they will be sending proof. I will post when i receive.

 

[wolfncoyote]

I look very much forward to this! If their info is viable I'll stay their customer bc then it DOES become all about the price lol.. But hey when something like calciworms is on the market, looks identical, but says DO NOT feed as the main part of a dragons diet.. you gotta ask questions and get the truth man.. for the sake of the dragons!

 

[HKzForDayz]

Well i feed my dragons crickets dubias and reptiworms so even if their results arent the same as phoenix i will stay a customer still, as i can ensure that my dragons are getting their nutrients. I like to give my dragons variety in what they eat.

 

[wolfncoyote]

agreed variety is good but at the same time... if ur gonna eat potatos, steak, and corn... would you want roadkill steak or usda choice? lol.. idk... I mean I've ordered reptiworms.. Ryu loves them.. and I want so badly for them to be identical to phoenix worms bc the price is nice.. but more than anything I want whats best for my dragon

 

[beardcore]

I am a new and loyal reptiworms customer. great and fast shipping, and CHEAP. PHOENIXWORMS wanted way to much to ship. I have a dragon that likes to eat alot and the cheaper per feeder is everything. I am sure they are the same, has anyone done a cah ratio test on a black soilder fly larvae not on a special diet??? That id care more to see.

 

[HKzForDayz]

i cant find any tests that have been done on them but I have seen them before, and I do know the species itself is the highest ratio feeder possible.