Yeast infection/increased mucous

[Cuttlefishh]

Hi there, i posted to this forum a few years ago when i first got my little beardie girl Taro. She was 7-9 months old at the time. Now she's a bit over 3

When we first got Taro it turned out she had slight metabolic bone disease from her husbandry with the previous owners. This was swiftly rectified though through our husbandry and vitamin supplements from the day she moved in with us; despite this though, the vet advised that there was some minor deformity in her face and her toes that occurred during her early development that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. As a result of the face deformity, she sometimes gags a little if she pigs out or drinks too much water. (Vet informed this probably wasn't something i terribly needed to worry about though)

Now, to say my dragon is a piglet is an understatement. But she was also difficult with her dustings. So, in order to get her to have her vitamins, i would dust chopped fruits (blueberries-worked every time)..

What i did not know is that giving beardies fruit too often can result in plaque !! Particularly in dragons that dont have usual face builds!!


Late last year she had a bit of a mouth infection, related to the plaque buildup. After taking her to the vet they advised I clean her teeth and she takes amoxicillin for her mouth infection. I did such and she was mostly cleared of the infection.. But the plaque was being stubborn to come off. Vet was still satisfied for the time and advised me to keep cleaning her teeth twice a week.

Last month her mouth became infected again. I took her back to the vet because she was slobbery from her mouth and her appetite dropped off once more. Vet immediately pushed for a dental operation, which i agreed to. She was also placed on antibiotics (amoxicillin again) for 14 days.

After just 7 days she had developed a yeast infection, so the vet prescribed Nystat, which she continued with for the remaining 7 days then stopped.

After the recheck when the surgery and meds were finished, the doctor said she looked much better and her mouth was cleared... her smile admittedly did look much better

It's been 3 weeks since then and she only briefly picked back up her appetite.. But now its dropped again... and she will occasionally "puff" out air from her abdomen (almost like a silent burp). Her mouth once more is slobbery and wet.. So back to the vet we went.

Vet identifies that there was a lot of mucous, but not from her teeth or mouth. Instead they suspected either stomach or respiratory.

This time she had bloodwork done, and a poo check. She was also started on Baytril for 10 days.. when the poo sample came back, they identified a lot of yeast.. and when the bloods came back, all was normal except for elevated pancreatic enzyme (the vet thinks this is related to the stomach infection)

So she was also placed back on Nystat. I have also administered Protexin, which is a reptile probiotic.

Today is day 3 she is on antibiotic and she is still puffing out air (and her breath is smelly). Vet did not seem overly worried and wished for me to check back after 2 weeks when the treatment is finished... She still seems a bit sick and not herself.

I suppose my question is: do any of you perhaps have experience with stomach/yeast infections ? Or the uses of Baytril and Nystat ? I'm just worried; and i dont know if i should be !!

Thank you apologies for the long post

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry Taro is not doing well! It sounds like it's been an uphill battle for you both.
The Nystatin is commonly used for yeast problems & should be pretty effective, too.
How long does the vet want her on the Baytril? I would definitely continue the probiotic,
for awhile since she is on a couple of medications.
Do you have any copy of the blood tests that have been done?
Also, please post some pictures of her if you can, along with her tank setup too just so we
can see how she looks & how her home is setup for her.
She is only eating a little bit right now? What do you use to clean her teeth/mouth? Poor
girl, metabolic bone is hard on them.
The vet doesn't suspect stomach cancer or anything like that, does she? In a lot of cases
with elevated pancreatic numbers, cancer is suspect. I hope that isn't the case. How long
do you think she has had stomach issues?
She didn't have parasites but high yeast levels?
Continue using the meds for now, to help get her cleared if possible. I am not sure why she
would have developed a stomach infection. Has she ever laid infertile eggs?

Tracie

 

[Cuttlefishh]

Hi Tracie, thank you for getting back to me!!
I'll go through those questions 1 by 1 then ill post all the pics!

1. Vet wants her on Baytril for 14 days, 0.2mls daily. Nystatin given as well after, then probiotics. I also give her liquid calcium (no D3) every 2-3 days, and herpavite 6 drops on her back every 2-3 days.

2. I do not, but i may be able to request a copy!

Her results I was told were normal except for elevated pancreas. They think this is related to the acute infection. They weren't sure if it were a respiratory or gastric infection, but on the poo check there was a lot of yeast build up.

The plan they gave me was to continue meds then recheck after 2 weeks. If not resolved then a biopsy may be required.

3. She looks interested in food at times, like she -wants- to eat it, but then she just looks at me a bit like "I'm sorry I cant". However, i bought some pureed pear today and opened the jar in front of her to see if she would eat it from a syringe.. but the smell enticed her enough that she licked some right out of the jar. (She definitely likes it).

To add another layer of complexity to all of this, I'm certain Taro is about to shed. (She was irate/restless all last week and she sometimes trying to scratch/itch her face)

4. She had high coccidia when we first got her , but never again after initial treatment some 3ish years ago. Her tummy issues really only started after we introduced antibiotics late 2019 for her first episode of stomatitis.

She had a yeast infection after her dental surgery confirmed (She was on antibiotics already 7 days prior to the procedure.) I had to call back the vet on day 12 or 13 to ask if it was ok to stop all the meds, because every single time Taro gets on antibiotics it just puts her really under... (Same with when she first had stomatitis too the drugs always throws her off so badly).

5. I used a pinkish solution made up by the vet (I'm sorry I forgot what it was called but its pretty common apparently) and a baby toothbrush!

The plaque issue was quite stubborn and she would bite her soft mouth tissue at times trying to nip off the toothbrush.. which would get a bit inflamed and bleed. The vet thinks the stomach lining infection could have stemmed from either the yeast issue(?) Or just be a byproduct of her recurrent recent mouth infection. The vet when they did the dental procedure also had caused a little bit of soft tissue abrasion in her mouth that she had to take time to recover from after (hence why she resumed amoxicillin 7 days before and after the procedure as well as to treat the existing infection.)

6. Taro has actually never laid eggs, i was a little suprised but apparently some dragons dont..?

Thanks so much for your advice and help, next post will be pics/setup

 

[Cuttlefishh]

Taro https://imgur.com/a/Ir23bSK

Taro, 5 days ago; the morning before I took her to the Vet. She was active/lively, but would still 'gape' her mouth open as if she were burping; and she would just puff out little bits of air- which is what prompted my concern. Her mouth was also quite wet. Appetite decreased for about a week now but she was showing signs of entering shed soon so i wasn't too sure if she was getting sick until i noticed the 'burping'

This is day 5 of being on medication routine above (present)
Taro looks really poorly (and i think she is definitely not well)- but in todays photos it is actually night time and i took her out while she was sleeping.

She looks almost unresponsive there, but she is actually responsive and wakes up when you interact with her (but then goes back to sleep.. in between a few episodes of gaping her mouth and 'burping' which is still very wet with mucous)

enclosure (bear with me its new; i recently commissioned someone to make this one)

3 feet long and 2.5 feet wide

37-38C on the 'warm side', slightly hotter on the basking spot

24-27C on the 'cool side'; im trying to bring it up a little with the blanket over the enclosure
humidity: never goes over 40%

UVB 10 and ceramic heat lamp. UVB 10 last changed November 2019; will replace again next month.

edited for easier viewing; apologies

 

[Cuttlefishh]

Last week; Taro was a bit restless and was messing up her enclosure and pushing around all the paper towels; climbing and glass surfing; black bearding in the morning time. She was also not really interested in eating; maybe one or two worms the whole week.

But she always seemed to settle after a few minutes of cuddles at least:

 

[KarrieRee]

I haft to ask what are you using for a UVB? And the basking light is a bright white bulb? You said UVB 10? It looks like a coil in the tank ? If so what is it for wattage ? They are terrible bulbs -- especially the 13 watt
Karrie

 

[Cuttlefishh]

I haft to ask what are you using for a UVB? And the basking light is a bright white bulb? You said UVB 10? It looks like a coil in the tank ? If so what is it for wattage ? They are terrible bulbs -- especially the 13 watt
Karrie

hi Karrie; its this one-

https://www.getyourpetright.com/uva-uvb-compact
i just checked mine seems to be 26 watt

the heat light is actually not a light at all; its a ceramic bulb

 

[KarrieRee]

ok so here is some info on the coil for you
The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.
The ceramic heat emitter can be used for keeping temps at nite it should not be used as a basking bulb --- you need a bright white basking bulb to keep basking temps to what they need to be which would 95-110--- a heat emitter cannot provide that ---
I would recommend you get this ASAP and if you want a better UVB I would switch to the tube fixture and go w/ a 24" w/ a reflector --- you can get a Arcadia bulb 12% - the tube provides a more broad spectrum of UVB than the coil
Karrie

 

[Cuttlefishh]

ok so here is some info on the coil for you
The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.
The ceramic heat emitter can be used for keeping temps at nite it should not be used as a basking bulb --- you need a bright white basking bulb to keep basking temps to what they need to be which would 95-110--- a heat emitter cannot provide that ---
I would recommend you get this ASAP and if you want a better UVB I would switch to the tube fixture and go w/ a 24" w/ a reflector --- you can get a Arcadia bulb 12% - the tube provides a more broad spectrum of UVB than the coil
Karrie

Oh wow, thanks for that info Kerrie; anything that will help her I am definitely willing to upgrade!!

would the Acadia tube 12% + the ceramic be enough heat and uvb? (Being I swap out the T10 coil; I will have to hire a handyman to help me fit it as the design of the current enclosure is made for the coils sadly!)

 

[KarrieRee]

Ok so the heat emitter is strictly for heat at nite if your tank is falling below 65 at nite--- your bright white basking bulb should keep basking temps 95-110--- the UVB can go on top of tank if you have a screen -w/ basking decor 8-10 inches from decor if not it would need to go inside your tank approx 12-15 inches from basking decor
Karrie

 

[Cuttlefishh]

Ok so the heat emitter is strictly for heat at nite if your tank is falling below 65 at nite--- your bright white basking bulb should keep basking temps 95-110--- the UVB can go on top of tank if you have a screen -w/ basking decor 8-10 inches from decor if not it would need to go inside your tank approx 12-15 inches from basking decor
Karrie

should be able to do that; ill just install a 3rd fixture (the tube) from the front corner; then i can replace the coil with a basking bulb and just use the ceramic at night

ill do this asap; thank you!!

 

[KarrieRee]

Make sure that UVB is in a fixture w/ reflector it will work the best
Karrie

 

[Cuttlefishh]

@Kerrie; definitely; ive found the fixtures im after and i'll order them as soon as i get paid this week-! I've also made contact with a handyman to help me fix them; I feel really guilty that i didn't actually own a proper 'basking sun' bulb this whole time.. but i will get it right this week



Taro this morning is still opening/gaping her mouth a bit; though it doesn't look quite as wet or slobbery this morning. She was also a bit cranky/black bearding, but it came and went as i gave her a bath. She is still clearly quite stressed though..

She did a poo in the bath. Her poop (not much because she hasn't been eating much) looks a bit bright green; shes not had any food recently that would make it green but maybe its related to the meds...? I really don't know. The urate looked healthy though

I'm just really worried; its day 4 of antibiotics, anti-yeast, probiotics and supplements (i forgot today is good Friday not Saturday so i miscalculated).

When should i expect to see her symptoms improve..?

 

[KarrieRee]

She should start improving when you get that UVB in her tank and the basking temps up -- she cant digest her food w/ low basking temps--- and the UVB is gonna help her absorb the calcium she needs -- if its sunny and warm 65 + degrees outside take her out - put her in a plastic tote NO glass - set her in direct sunlight for 15 minutes -- that will equal out to around 4 hrs of UVB -- I am thinking the meds are giving the off color of the poop ----------- is she eating at all ?
Karrie

 

[Cuttlefishh]

@kerrie its overcast at the moment and a bit cool, but expected to warm up and be clear tomorrow at least so i can take her then- ill do it as often as i can

Shes eating very very little, only a few laps of pureed pear this morning. I can force feed her if need be but im worried about stressing her out even more she seems pretty lethargic this morning.. but wakes when i come near the enclosure