Hahaha! He's a num num Hoover! ?MrSpectrum":365apiya said:That's how Z is with his num-nums (dubias). The first time I ordered ½" I was concerned. The distance between his eyes was just about ½". When they got here, I think it must have been the end of their stock (and end of the year) because while mostly ½", there were an awful lot of larger & smaller sizes as well. Also a few hundred more than I ordered. One day curiosity got the better of me, and I fed him one of the largest (probably 1"). His eyes got real big (like a puppy that gets a huge rawhide) but he had no trouble munching that sucker down. Same with giant mealies & supers (which is why I didn't hesitate with the large supers order this time). Since then, I've kept with ½" dubias--mostly because the price goes up significantly with larger sizes. Where I used to count out 5, then 10, then 15... Now I just pull out a tube (I use old paper towel tubes instead of egg crate cuz I got a zillion of em) rap on the side, and 15-20 fall out into the bowl. He scarfs down 2, 3, even 4 at a time! :lol:DragonPete":365apiya said:If I don't feed him 1 at a time, he'll inhale them....
Like you say, he inhales 'em!(Or as I say, he's a roach hoover. )
Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. ?Wickedpogana":23mn1ryy said:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms
yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larveDragonPete":39g8cy83 said:Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. ?Wickedpogana":39g8cy83 said:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms
-Dee
Oh! I'm not worried. ? I was questioning the reasons people were opposed to Supers. No problems on this end. I thought it would be a good conversation and it has. ?Wickedpogana":1ji9fzde said:yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larveDragonPete":1ji9fzde said:Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. ?Wickedpogana":1ji9fzde said:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms
-Dee
awesome and hornworms also are great i dont believe they have chitin and if so not much at all a quick google search can find out lol goodluck otherwise hopefully more awesome discussionsDragonPete":f1vz9nuz said:Oh! I'm not worried. ? I was questioning the reasons people were opposed to Supers. No problems on this end. I thought it would be a good conversation and it has. ?Wickedpogana":f1vz9nuz said:yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larveDragonPete":f1vz9nuz said:Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. ?Wickedpogana":f1vz9nuz said:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms
-Dee
-Dee
I've become a fixture around here in the last couple months. ? Looking forward to indepth discussions.Wickedpogana":2ideh9ef said:awesome and hornworms also are great i dont believe they have chitin and if so not much at all a quick google search can find out lol goodluck otherwise hopefully more awesome discussionsDragonPete":2ideh9ef said:Oh! I'm not worried. ? I was questioning the reasons people were opposed to Supers. No problems on this end. I thought it would be a good conversation and it has. ?Wickedpogana":2ideh9ef said:yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larveDragonPete":2ideh9ef said:Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. ?Wickedpogana":2ideh9ef said:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms
-Dee
-Dee
LOL! I bet! I think they look at worms the same way I do walnut brownies. ? Yum!Gormagon":bn0bgesh said:The only ones that have problems with superworms here at the Chateau de Gormagon are Charlie and Angel. That's only because there are never enough passed out at snack time, lol!!!
Yes, they are very demanding, lol!!!?????DragonPete":26wdx8ph said:LOL! I bet! I think they look at worms the same way I do walnut brownies. ? Yum!Gormagon":26wdx8ph said:The only ones that have problems with superworms here at the Chateau de Gormagon are Charlie and Angel. That's only because there are never enough passed out at snack time, lol!!!
-Dee
Thank you! I love learning stuff!! This is what a discussion should be. ? Plus I'm one of those agrivating people who want to know the WHY'S of everything. ?DorgEndo":3bjkb5x4 said:Jumping in quick. Oversimplification of chitin is that chitin and fiber and exoskeleton are the same thing. Not really, there are more details of course. It looked like there was some misinformation about chitin in a few posts.
Some random examples comparing chitin. Younger dubia roaches have less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than older dubia roaches. A freshly molted mealworm has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than a normal mealworm. Caterpillar insects like hornworms, silk worms, and butterworms have very little chitin/fiber/exoskeleton because of how soft they are. A gut loaded insect has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than one not gut loaded, a very well fed insect you can see between the plates on the exoskeleton to the soft body underneath - crickets will get this way because they will eat non-stop and their exoskeleton allows that - roaches too to some extent.
To a degree you can see or touch an insect and feel how hard the body is to assess if has more or less chitin compared to what you normally give your dragon. I think like any foods offering some variety is a safe place to land. Aiming for a middle chitin road BSFL, roaches, crickets, and locusts. Then the caterpillars with low chitin and supers/mealworms with high chitin more on the occasional/treat end. That also lines up with other nutritional qualities too amazingly.
There are types of insects that are not recommended for feeding at all. The beetle of the mealworm or superworm. From what I know about the exoskeleton of beetles the fibers become intertwined with protein. The bond is so strong neither the protein or fiber can be digested and used by a bearded dragon. So that's why no one feeds mature beetles. The fiber and protein have some bonding in the larvae stages, but it is not even close compared to after metamorphosis for those bugs that metamorphosize.
Darkling beetles are perfectly fine for them to eat besides the fact they have a defensive odor when threatenedDorgEndo":1na3tsyj said:Jumping in quick. Oversimplification of chitin is that chitin and fiber and exoskeleton are the same thing. Not really, there are more details of course. It looked like there was some misinformation about chitin in a few posts.
Some random examples comparing chitin. Younger dubia roaches have less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than older dubia roaches. A freshly molted mealworm has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than a normal mealworm. Caterpillar insects like hornworms, silk worms, and butterworms have very little chitin/fiber/exoskeleton because of how soft they are. A gut loaded insect has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than one not gut loaded, a very well fed insect you can see between the plates on the exoskeleton to the soft body underneath - crickets will get this way because they will eat non-stop and their exoskeleton allows that - roaches too to some extent.
To a degree you can see or touch an insect and feel how hard the body is to assess if has more or less chitin compared to what you normally give your dragon. I think like any foods offering some variety is a safe place to land. Aiming for a middle chitin road BSFL, roaches, crickets, and locusts. Then the caterpillars with low chitin and supers/mealworms with high chitin more on the occasional/treat end. That also lines up with other nutritional qualities too amazingly.
There are types of insects that are not recommended for feeding at all. The beetle of the mealworm or superworm. From what I know about the exoskeleton of beetles the fibers become intertwined with protein. The bond is so strong neither the protein or fiber can be digested and used by a bearded dragon. So that's why no one feeds mature beetles. The fiber and protein have some bonding in the larvae stages, but it is not even close compared to after metamorphosis for those bugs that metamorphosize.
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