Weird mouth shutter behavior

[colbertf]

Hi everyone. Has anyone seen this before? My 9 month old male bearded dragon Rowan up on his basking spot opens his mouth to bask and gape often throughout the day, but for the past many weeks a majority of the time he'll open to gape and his mouth will rapidly vibrate closed really quickly, eventually he will open it and stay basking with mouth open. I've searched through the forums and groups and can not find any other owners showing this.

Hard to catch because when I put up the camera he won't do it but I was able to catch a few shots.
Files are too large to upload here, uploaded to YouTube:

He was treated for URI but if I remember correctly was not doing this mouth shuttering when he started the treatment back in early April, finished medication (ceftazidime injections), and the Gentamicin via the nebulizer about 3-4 weeks ago.

 

[KarrieRee]

Hi everyone. Has anyone seen this before? My 9 month old male bearded dragon Rowan up on his basking spot opens his mouth to bask and gape often throughout the day, but for the past many weeks a majority of the time he'll open to gape and his mouth will rapidly vibrate closed really quickly, eventually he will open it and stay basking with mouth open. I've searched through the forums and groups and can not find any other owners showing this.

Hard to catch because when I put up the camera he won't do it but I was able to catch a few shots.
Files are too large to upload here, uploaded to YouTube:

He was treated for URI but if I remember correctly was not doing this mouth shuttering when he started the treatment back in early April, finished medication (ceftazidime injections), and the Gentamicin via the nebulizer about 3-4 weeks ago.

@AHBD
@Drache613

 

[AHBD]

Probably just a slight harmless movement , he looks healthy [ even a little chunky ] so I don't think it's anything to worry about.

 

[colbertf]

Over this past week and more so in recent past few days seeing much more gulping behavior, he's eating a very small amounts of veg/salad, will not eat any insects/protein, left in enclosure or if I try to hand feed,
this is gulping this evening

Was feeding omnicare via syringe sid eof mouth small amounts, but stopped last week to see if he might eat more but hasn't changed much, he was eating butterworms when I hand feed, maybe 2 or 3 at a time, then a few hours later some more, but he won't eat any insects now , been like that for a good many days

 

[AHBD]

That's normal, my guys will do that times. His appetite may be off because of the meds. but also because he's a big boy and they can go without eating very easily at times with no problem and no weight loss.

 

[colbertf]

Thank you @AHBD . He finished meds about 3 weeks ago, how long could I expect his appetite to be off like this?

 

[AHBD]

They are all different in this situation. The Omni care supplemental food is very filling so he was fed that up until last week and he is in good enough shape + body weight to ignore food until he feels ready. That will come back suddenly, just offer stuff every couple of days and eventually he should get his appetite back.

 

[colbertf]

They are all different in this situation. The Omni care supplemental food is very filling so he was fed that up until last week and he is in good enough shape + body weight to ignore food until he feels ready. That will come back suddenly, just offer stuff every couple of days and eventually he should get his appetite back.

Thank you @AHBD , I appreciate your feedback.

 

[AHBD]

You're welcome , keep updates on your handsome boy Rowan !

 

[Drache613]

Hello Colbert,

I agree, that is pretty normal behavior. A lot of them push out their beards like that, or open
their mouth under the lights, while basking or thermoregulating.
How is he doing today, has he started eating any greens yet?

Tracie

 

[colbertf]

Hi and thanks Tracie @Drache613 .
He is slowly eating greens, small amount yesterday, not much today. Not eating any insects at all, have tried hand feeding many times throughout the day, each day, left in bowl, wont eat. (dubias, silkworms, not even eating butterworms or hornworms now, won't touch them) :-( ,
He has not eaten any insects in about 5 days

I agree that the last video shows the thermoregulating, but the first 4 videos above that with the mouth spasms I showed to the vet, I haven't been able to find another post in this group or some of the other dragon groups that some the mouth spasms, tonight he opened his mouth and it spasmed 3x times the amount more than seen in those videos...doesn't seem like its causing any stress though. The vet looked at those 4 videos and literally just got back to me tonight, they have not seen that mouth spasm before and are not sure, the vet is suggesting I take Rowan and do a CT scan?

 

[Drache613]

Hello Colbert,

How is Rowan doing? What does the vet think that the issue could be or does he have any
ideas on it?
It could be neurological but not sure what would be the cause of it. His calcium levels are good
so I don't think that is it. A CT scan might help in case something else is going on but it is definitely
a costly test.
I will try to get an email written as well.

Tracie

 

[colbertf]

Tracie, thank you @Drache613 . The vet she looked at the mouth spasm videos and showed to other vet techs also, she does not know what it is. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly when it started exactly, but it was sometime during or towards the end of the last treatment for the URI, the ceftazidime Injectable, and the Gentamicin / NaCl via nebulize, about the last 6 days of the nebulize treatment the connection containing the medication had a small crack and the medication stopped blowing in through the tube with any real pressure, someone recommended using the small childs facemask as a workaround. For maybe 8 sessions I used that, putting his face in, he sat through most of it without much issue, I wonder if that might have caused something, otherwise I'm not sure what might be the cause.

 

[colbertf]

Just to update here as it might help others owners in the future. Following a CT-scan and cardiac ultrasound this was the response I got back from the doctor regarding the mouth spasms (see video links in initial description)

----- Forwarded Message -----
"..I was able to go through the CT scan in detail with our radiologist. Overall, the main abnormalities are the very large fat pads in the coelom (abdomen) which are pushing the rest of the organs forward and the very decreased lung volume. For better or worse, we did not see any specific concerns within the liver or the lungs themselves. I suspect the lung fields are small due to having less space available from the fat pads, but there may also be a component of inflammation that is not visible on the CT. The mouth movement do appear to be associated with extra large breaths and forced expiration which may be due to the lungs having reduced space. Given these findings and the normal echocardiogram (heart ultrasound), I think it is likely that Rowan's signs are primarily due to the adenovirus infection. "

 

[AHBD]

Was he diagnosed with ADV ? I don't remember that in the posts. At any rate, the small mouth movements are totally normal, I've seen dragons do this many times. The fact that he's had a URI and then on nebulizers might add to it just a bit but that's not a big deal at all. If your dragon is ADV positive it might contribute to a URI but would still not make this particular mouth movement as a side effect. With a URI there can be much worse breathing problems. Rowan seems to look pretty good ! But if you haven't had him tested for ADV, do that. Tracie works with the lab that is studying ADV and can get Rowan tested for a very low price by the experts.