Walkimg weird

Orion1002

Member
I had little one out today and she was walking over the couch and I was videoing her. Rewatching the video, her walking just seems so strange. And she has been doing the walking on the back of her hands thing for a while. Everything makes seems to point to MBD but I don’t understand why and I’m so worried I’ve done something to mess her up or not taken care of her properly. She had an imbalance thing a couple of weeks ago but that seemed to clear up (I think my mom just cut down the heat lamp way too low that day). One other thing I noticed was that all of her hands got pretty dark again after her shed of them, almost like they are going to shed again right away. So that’s been weird.

I’m attaching the videos below, please ignore my dad he thinks he’s interacting with her and I try to tell him not to. Also I had to cut the videos into clips so they would fit on the post.

She has a vet visit scheduled on March 6th, when my employee discount kicks in. And I haven’t contacted the vet tech here to get the ADV test done yet which I know I need to since she’s a box store baby. I’m just so worried and upset that I’ve hurt her somehow by not having the right husbandry. I could cry because I was scared of this when getting a beardie in the first place, I was scared of harming them.

Husbandry: 40 gallon tank; 10.0 T5 reptisun uvb light in the reptisun fixture sat on top of the tank, installed in mid October, someone said it was open enough wire mesh to sit on top; zoo med 100w basking bulb; temp probe and just checked the temp after feeding and it was about 107 under the basking spot; digital humidity reader that stays at about 19; reptile carpet as substrate; feed 40 medium size BSFL from Flukers in the morning and at night; mustards greens and bell peppers are available all day and sometimes she eats it and sometimes she doesn’t, sprinkle salad every day with calcium powder with vit D3 and reptivite (a multi vitamin powder); lights are on automatic timer and they come on at 7am and go off at 9:00pm; spritzed with water three times a day and given a 5 minute bath three times a week and don’t keep water in her tank.
I think that’s most of the things husbandry wise. Her poops look ok-ish I guess as they have some form and I see loose urate and she poops every day but sometimes every other day. I do notice sometimes there looks like food that has not been completely digested. Her urate is white mostly but can have a pink or red tinge but her favorite bell peppers are orange so I chalked that up to the color of the veg.
Oh and I got her from petco on October 2, 2022.
 

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

She is a pretty girl, & overall looks alert to me. Her gait is a bit off, I agree. Is there any swelling
on her feet or hands, like around the joints, or not? It was hard to tell from the videos.
The Reptisun 10 T5 tube is a good bulb. How far is the tube bulb from her? What type of mesh
screen top do you have it mounted on?
The calcium with D3 combined with Reptivite might be too much supplementation, but not sure. I
haven't looked at the Reptivite label in awhile, could you check to see if there is D3 listed on the
label?
Since you are using a high output tube UVB light, she probably doesn't need excess D3 since the
exposure of the T5 light technically should be enough for her to naturally synthesize enough on her
own. Can you get some calcium without D3 for her?
You just noticed this with her walking recently?

Tracie
 

Orion1002

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

She is a pretty girl, & overall looks alert to me. Her gait is a bit off, I agree. Is there any swelling
on her feet or hands, like around the joints, or not? It was hard to tell from the videos.
The Reptisun 10 T5 tube is a good bulb. How far is the tube bulb from her? What type of mesh
screen top do you have it mounted on?
The calcium with D3 combined with Reptivite might be too much supplementation, but not sure. I
haven't looked at the Reptivite label in awhile, could you check to see if there is D3 listed on the
label?
Since you are using a high output tube UVB light, she probably doesn't need excess D3 since the
exposure of the T5 light technically should be enough for her to naturally synthesize enough on her
own. Can you get some calcium without D3 for her?
You just noticed this with her walking recently?

Tracie
Thank you for your reply and the compliment!
I don’t know if it’s swelling but her “forearm” areas do look round to me at some angles. Here are some recent pics.
BCCC949B-88D8-416A-B872-E1316018F395.jpeg
A0D90C1C-BCF4-4434-ACC1-F2773F03AA9A.jpeg
1CAC3A0C-0CA4-4BDB-AD94-EB752BB916C3.jpeg
F423C593-CEEA-46CD-B7EB-E6DFE0EC0C87.jpeg
7B80FAEC-67D4-4F2D-B0FB-F13D07E2426B.jpeg


I would say the top of her rock hide is about 8-10 inches from the tube light. Here’s a picture, sorry about the quality it’s from this morning before I left for work and the lights were still off. I tried to lighten it so you can see. She’s even sleeping with her head poked out of the hide haha. Also here’s a pic of the mesh top. Someone said that it wasn’t the small mesh so should be fine for the light to get through.
07C254DD-E315-4862-B2A2-770EB32FE414.jpeg

87CEB4BB-6E80-484B-922B-0E3B3BFD92FB.jpeg

The reptivite does have d3 in it. I originally got it because I wasn’t putting calcium powder on her salad because she was getting the BSFL which are supposed to have calcium. But then I got concerned maybe that wasn’t enough by itself and went back to putting it on the salad. And I put calcium and the multivitamin on each day because sometimes she can be particular about eating her salad so I didn’t want her to not get them. I can definitely go to a calcium powder without D3 though. Should I get a different multivitamin too though?

I think I have been seeing it for about a month I think but wasn’t sure if I was being overly anxious or not. After watching the videos though I definitely thought she has a weird gate. The walking on the back of her hands or standing with her hands like that thing though has been since I got her I believe. I just thought it was normal for beardies since she didn’t seem in pain or so it 24/7, unlike dogs where that would be knuckling over. I should have looked it up though.

I hope that gives you some more information. I moved her vet visit to this coming Monday thanks to my boss letting me use the employee discount early.
 

Orion1002

Member
Original Poster
@Drache613 i also took these pictures tonight where her back left foot looks a lot bigger than her right and a little puffy in person. I haven’t noticed this but have been doing long checks over her after I feed her. She’s very good and let’s me pretty much manipulate anything. Doesn’t seem to be bothered when I touch it. It’s hard to tell in pictures but kind of more obvious in person. I can’t find any retained shed either since her feet just shed
11E93F19-A8E8-43DE-BD16-9D88AA1264C0.jpeg
1B30A302-88B5-48F4-ABDB-FBA82708C690.jpeg
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I hope she isn't developing gout. For now, what I recommend is
to decrease or cut out completely any D3 supplementation & yes,
I would get another vitamin as well that doesn't have D3 or synthetic
vitamin A. Those can build up in the system & cause issues.
Try to get some black or tart cherry juice extract to give to her daily
right now to help flush out the kidneys. Just give .5ml to 1ml daily
either straight or diluted down with water, either way.
The T5 at 8-10 inches from her is fine, since it is mounted on top
of the screen. Does she sit underneath of it fairly often?
Let's make those changes first for a couple of weeks to see if she
improves some. Gout normally gets worse, without treatment so
you don't want it to go too long.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
 

Orion1002

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

I hope she isn't developing gout. For now, what I recommend is
to decrease or cut out completely any D3 supplementation & yes,
I would get another vitamin as well that doesn't have D3 or synthetic
vitamin A. Those can build up in the system & cause issues.
Try to get some black or tart cherry juice extract to give to her daily
right now to help flush out the kidneys. Just give .5ml to 1ml daily
either straight or diluted down with water, either way.
The T5 at 8-10 inches from her is fine, since it is mounted on top
of the screen. Does she sit underneath of it fairly often?
Let's make those changes first for a couple of weeks to see if she
improves some. Gout normally gets worse, without treatment so
you don't want it to go too long.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
Oh no 😣
Thank you so much for the recommendations. I am off Friday so will get new calcium powder and a multivitamin, but until then I’ll stop the ones I’m using.

I will get the black cherry extract right away, Friday at the latest. I looked it up and it says that a too high of protein diet and/or dehydration can cause it. She is still eating 40 BSFL 2 times a day. Do you think that is too many? I believe she was 3-4 months old when I got her ao now I’m guessing she’d be around 7-8 months and I know you’re supposed to decrease protein as they become adults. She doesn’t eat much of her salad though even though I’ve tried ways to get her to eat more of it.
Also worried about hydration. She doesn’t lick water off of herself when she’s in the bath or when I spritz her and I’ve never seen her drink in the bath. So I’ve always been worried about dehydration. Should I start syringe feeding her water?

She sits on top of her rock hide quite often. It’s probably her favorite place.

I’m sorry for all of the questions 🙈 I’m sure you get bombarded on here all the time. Thank you so much for your help though!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
You can add a little extra water when you give her the cherry juice. As for protein, all of my growing babies were raised on crickets, none ever had a problem with gout . I don't know about bsfl leading to gout, never heard of it. She might not have it though, hopefully she doesn't. She looks bright eyed + alert . :)
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
After re-reading some things, I'm thinking it actually could be MBD developing. Being from a pet store could have been where it started since they don't usually provide proper uvb. And although your set up is beautiful, the uvb is only accessible if she spends time up high. So there is the possibility that she grew quickly but had a bad start at the pet store and then is out of range of the uvb for a lot of the time in the tank. If you live in a warm area getting her out in the sun would be a good idea.
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
And I would recommend getting the uvb in the tank if it's mbd developing - we want to nip this in the bud now-- 12-15 inches directly above the basking decor - especially if your screen is a fine mesh like a screen door
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That's great you were able to get her in earlier than
projected, & with your discount!
It might be metabolic bone disease developing, but
hopefully they will do a blood test to help determine
blood values.
How is she doing today?
Did you find any black cherry powder extract for her?
That is quite a bit of calcium intake with the insects &
the supplementation. So, there could be a few things
going on but hopefully we can get it figured out here
quickly before it progresses more.

Tracie
 

Orion1002

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

That's great you were able to get her in earlier than
projected, & with your discount!
It might be metabolic bone disease developing, but
hopefully they will do a blood test to help determine
blood values.
How is she doing today?
Did you find any black cherry powder extract for her?
That is quite a bit of calcium intake with the insects &
the supplementation. So, there could be a few things
going on but hopefully we can get it figured out here
quickly before it progresses more.

Tracie
Hi everyone, sorry for the delay in update. I’m wanted to update after the vet on Monday and then work has been absolutely bonkers. The vet said overall she looked good and was strong. We did radiographs and said her bones looked good. She still has her growth plates so she’s still growing. She thinks the knuckling over and gait issue could be neurological, one side seems to be more muscular than the other. We also did a fecal, bloodwork, and the Atadenovirus test. Those results should be back in a week, maybe two for the Atadenovirus, so hopefully we can rule out MBD and gout and see if she has the virus. She agreed to cut back on the calcium and multivitamin supplements like some have said here. So I have a new calcium powder without D3 and a multivitamin without D3, doing calcium powder three times a week and multivitamin twice. Little one was a good girl and didn’t bite anyone, but she did not like going to the vet. She hasn’t been too happy since she got home either, like won’t take her larvae from hand feeding which absolutely terrified me at first because she always loves her bugs. But she ate them out of the dish so guessing it’s just her being a brat haha. I did get the cherry extract, but should I use it or wait? I have also added a water bowl to her enclosure to try to get the humidity up a bit and see if she’ll drink out of it. I haven’t seen anything yet but I’m hoping she does. I’ve been trying to do droplets on her nose to get her to drink but she’s just doesn’t really open her mouth for it. The vet said she didn’t look dehydrated but I’m still quite worried she might be.

Overall she seems to be ok? I don’t know, still just kind of worried about her.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Hopefully all of the test results will be in next week for you. I'm glad to hear she did well at
the vets, but I guess she wasn't keen on being poked & prodded too much.
You can definitely go ahead & give the black cherry extract, even if she doesn't have gout, it
is still great for overall kidney health anyway.
You can take the water bowl out at night, just so she doesn't accidentally fall asleep in it at night.
Then you can put it back in during the daytime.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
 

Orion1002

Member
Original Poster
Hello,

Hopefully all of the test results will be in next week for you. I'm glad to hear she did well at
the vets, but I guess she wasn't keen on being poked & prodded too much.
You can definitely go ahead & give the black cherry extract, even if she doesn't have gout, it
is still great for overall kidney health anyway.
You can take the water bowl out at night, just so she doesn't accidentally fall asleep in it at night.
Then you can put it back in during the daytime.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
So the results came back for little one. Calcium and phosphorus looked good but she is coccidia positive. The ADV test came back negative but the vet is concerned that it could be a false negative because that does happen. So right now she is being put on Ponazuril for the coccidia and then she’s doing Enrofloxacin just in case it is a virus attacking her CNS (as vet thinks it’s neurological). The meds are being compounded for her so it’s gonna take a week or so to get them to me which I’m a bit worried about. If she doesn’t seem to improve in the next few weeks on the meds the vet wants to send out to a lab in FL for a more specific ADV test to confirm. We’ll also recheck a fecal after she’s done with the Ponazuril.

Can anyone suggest a tile to use for substrate? I don’t think I’m going to keep the reptile carpet because I just can’t keep it clean enough and now I have to disinfect everything for the coccidia.

Hoping these meds will help my little one 😣 I feel horrible she has an intestinal parasite, as she must have gotten it through her husbandry.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Sorry your girl has coccidia. Ponazuril is a
very effective medication so that should wipe
that out pretty quickly. Keep her well hydrated while she is on meds. Yes, the
Adeno tests can sometimes come back as
a false negative if she isn't shedding. I
usually recommend testing 2-3 times just to
be sure the test is still a true negative. Space
out the re-testing about 3 or so months.
As far as a substrate/tile, a lot of us use either
textured or non textured slate tiles. They are
easy to keep clean & are helpful in filing down
their nails, too.
That is good news her calcium & phosphorus
ratio & levels are good. A lot of things can
cause neurological problems. I hope she is
feeling better soon.

Tracie
 

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