Vet confusion, worried.

[0791]

In August, I took my now 9 month old Tubby to the vet for his first annual check in. The vet ended up diagnosing him with MBD based off the symptoms of tremors and soft jaw. He did no other testing except a physical exam and sent me on my way. The only advice he gave me was to increase his calcium to once a day from the 3x-4x a week that I was doing and said after time things should start looking up. I thought it was weird he did not give him any calcium medications to treat this, but I gave him a chance since he's from a reptile vet directory website and generally seemed to know more about bearded dragons than some other vets I had went to. I followed his advice and gave the Repashy calcium/multivitamin everyday for sometime.

After a few months, I noticed Tubby was not improving at all, and actually developed a few other odd symptoms. He started to hide in his hut almost daily, his eyes had started to water only while he ate (it'd form a glaze that when wiped away is grainy like sand), and he'd excessively slow blink and I'd always visibly see his second eyelid. He still seemed to eat just fine and was growing/gaining like your average bearded dragon aside from having little twig arms. I decided to take him back to the vet for an appointment 3 days ago and I'm not really sure what's going on anymore. He did the same thing again for this appointment, no other testing aside from a physical exam (did a fecal test as well, waiting for the results). At first, the vet seemed concerned for a URI, so he checked Tubby's lungs with a stethoscope, checked for discharge around the nose/eyes/mouth, and found nothing from either of those. He also checked inside of his mouth and stated there was a build up of fluid. He came up with the conclusion that Tubby's watery eyes were the result of him not properly absorbing his vitamin A. The rest of the appointment was some discussion on his MBD, so we both agreed on giving Tubby injections. I thought these injections were related to his MBD, but when I got home and looked up the medication it seems like it's used to treat infections. I am just really confused and worried because he never stated openly what infection Tubby would be diagnosed with to be prescribed ceftazidime. It also seemed a little odd to put him on an infection medication without doing any other forms of testing aside from a physical and proper diagnosis, but I'm not the vet. It seems like there was a bit of miscommunication that I am trying to get figured out, I already reached out to them and am awaiting a response since they were closed on the weekend.

I did make mention of a mistake that I thought could be directly affecting his progress with his MBD. I was using an off-brand light fixture + bulb for a long while before I started seeing a lot of people complain that it's not as good for your pet as your Reptisun or Arcadia. I recently upgraded him to the ProT5 Arcadia 12% from REPTI ZOO T5 HO UVB Lighting Combo Kit on Amazon. Ever since I upgraded him, he seems to be slightly improving. I still don't think that would be enough with the calcium dusting by itself to help him get over this MBD would it? I am not sure what to do. I will say he has seemed to improve somewhat since his first injection, so maybe this isn't a horrible thing after all. I am feeling a little lost and worried about this whole situation currently as I've been waiting for them to get back to me.

Anything is appreciated, like anything at this point.
Thank you!

 

[KarrieRee]

In August, I took my now 9 month old Tubby to the vet for his first annual check in. The vet ended up diagnosing him with MBD based off the symptoms of tremors and soft jaw. He did no other testing except a physical exam and sent me on my way. The only advice he gave me was to increase his calcium to once a day from the 3x-4x a week that I was doing and said after time things should start looking up. I thought it was weird he did not give him any calcium medications to treat this, but I gave him a chance since he's from a reptile vet directory website and generally seemed to know more about bearded dragons than some other vets I had went to. I followed his advice and gave the Repashy calcium/multivitamin everyday for sometime.

After a few months, I noticed Tubby was not improving at all, and actually developed a few other odd symptoms. He started to hide in his hut almost daily, his eyes had started to water only while he ate (it'd form a glaze that when wiped away is grainy like sand), and he'd excessively slow blink and I'd always visibly see his second eyelid. He still seemed to eat just fine and was growing/gaining like your average bearded dragon aside from having little twig arms. I decided to take him back to the vet for an appointment 3 days ago and I'm not really sure what's going on anymore. He did the same thing again for this appointment, no other testing aside from a physical exam (did a fecal test as well, waiting for the results). At first, the vet seemed concerned for a URI, so he checked Tubby's lungs with a stethoscope, checked for discharge around the nose/eyes/mouth, and found nothing from either of those. He also checked inside of his mouth and stated there was a build up of fluid. He came up with the conclusion that Tubby's watery eyes were the result of him not properly absorbing his vitamin A. The rest of the appointment was some discussion on his MBD, so we both agreed on giving Tubby injections. I thought these injections were related to his MBD, but when I got home and looked up the medication it seems like it's used to treat infections. I am just really confused and worried because he never stated openly what infection Tubby would be diagnosed with to be prescribed ceftazidime. It also seemed a little odd to put him on an infection medication without doing any other forms of testing aside from a physical and proper diagnosis, but I'm not the vet. It seems like there was a bit of miscommunication that I am trying to get figured out, I already reached out to them and am awaiting a response since they were closed on the weekend.

I did make mention of a mistake that I thought could be directly affecting his progress with his MBD. I was using an off-brand light fixture + bulb for a long while before I started seeing a lot of people complain that it's not as good for your pet as your Reptisun or Arcadia. I recently upgraded him to the ProT5 Arcadia 12% from REPTI ZOO T5 HO UVB Lighting Combo Kit on Amazon. Ever since I upgraded him, he seems to be slightly improving. I still don't think that would be enough with the calcium dusting by itself to help him get over this MBD would it? I am not sure what to do. I will say he has seemed to improve somewhat since his first injection, so maybe this isn't a horrible thing after all. I am feeling a little lost and worried about this whole situation currently as I've been waiting for them to get back to me.

Anything is appreciated, like anything at this point.
Thank you!

Where do you have your uvb? Is it in the tank or top of screen? Your screen will determine where the uvb needs to go- I would look at getting a different vet- they should of done an x-ray to see where the calcium was- plus blood work to see what the calcium levels were at- dragons cannot get over mbd- we can slow the process or stop it from getting worse- your uvb that you have now should help him a lot and from getting worse but we need to get it properly placed and distanced - we can have Tracie recommend some things that can help she's the vet tech on here - flagging your post
@Drache613

 

[0791]

Where do you have your uvb? Is it in the tank or top of screen? Your screen will determine where the uvb needs to go- I would look at getting a different vet- they should of done an x-ray to see where the calcium was- plus blood work to see what the calcium levels were at- dragons cannot get over mbd- we can slow the process or stop it from getting worse- your uvb that you have now should help him a lot and from getting worse but we need to get it properly placed and distanced - we can have Tracie recommend some things that can help she's the vet tech on here - flagging your post
@Drache613

It is on top of the screen as for now he's in a 40 gallon. I have a picture from my last post of what the mesh looks like so you can get an idea. Does this mean he'll never lose the tremor and soft jaw? The way the vet was talking made it seem like it would be something that would diminish or settle.

My options for vets are not great at all where I am currently living. This vet is probably the best out of the few I've been to/looked at sadly. Luckily, I will be moving out of state in less than a month. I'm hoping I can find a good vet for my babies since it will be a different area.

 

[KarrieRee]

It is on top of the screen as for now he's in a 40 gallon. I have a picture from my last post of what the mesh looks like so you can get an idea. Does this mean he'll never lose the tremor and soft jaw? The way the vet was talking made it seem like it would be something that would diminish or settle.

My options for vets are not great at all where I am currently living. This vet is probably the best out of the few I've been to/looked at sadly. Luckily, I will be moving out of state in less than a month. I'm hoping I can find a good vet for my babies since it will be a different area.

Ok it looks like you have a wide hole screen - place a piece of basking decor directly under it 8-10 inches --- watch his behavior - here is a website for you to find a new reptile vet where your going- use the closest big city to you www.arav.org
Hoping in time the tremor will go away and the soft jaw will strengthen -- maybe Tracie can answer that question -- the point is you are proactive and the UVB w/ the calcium supplements will do what I posted here

 

[xp29]

What staples are you feeding him? Some stuff like spinach has calcium binders that keeps him from absorbing the calcium in the first place, couple that with inadequate uvb and/or incorrect basking temps and it's a recipe for disaster. If you get your hands on silkworms and black soldier fly larva it may help dust everyday with calcium and 3 times per week with multivitamin. Your basking temp needs to be 100 to 105 at 9 months. Make sure he can get close to the uvb, i know 12 to 15 inches is commonly recommended, but i would set it up so he can get as close as 5 or 6 inches on a gradient all the way down to 15ish at least until he is stabilized. Then you can make it a bit lower. Overlap your uvb and basking so he doesn't have to chose one or the other. Give him options and he will instinctively go to where he needs to be.

 

[0791]

What staples are you feeding him? Some stuff like spinach has calcium binders that keeps him from absorbing the calcium in the first place, couple that with inadequate uvb and/or incorrect basking temps and it's a recipe for disaster. If you get your hands on silkworms and black soldier fly larva it may help dust everyday with calcium and 3 times per week with multivitamin. Your basking temp needs to be 100 to 105 at 9 months. Make sure he can get close to the uvb, i know 12 to 15 inches is commonly recommended, but i would set it up so he can get as close as 5 or 6 inches on a gradient all the way down to 15ish at least until he is stabilized. Then you can make it a bit lower. Overlap your uvb and basking so he doesn't have to chose one or the other. Give him options and he will instinctively go to where he needs to be.

He is offered a salad of either collard greens, bok choy, or escarole everyday. I give squash, cilantro, and blueberries on his salad every once in a while as well. As for insects, he gets superworms, crickets, dubia roaches, and hornworms (only 3-4 hornworms a week). I have tried offering BSFL a few times and he isn't fond of them sadly... I will continue to try him on them though. I've never tried silkworms as they seem to be a bit expensive on the sites I've looked at. His basking temps are around that range of 100-110 currently, and his UVB is actually a bit closer than it should be at around the 10 inch mark since I had gotten the new Arcadia. Both basking bulb and UVB are overlapped at the moment.

 

[xp29]

It sounds like your husbandry is on point. If you can get blood work done, and copies of xrays (i think i rememder you saying they took them) and post them here, there are folks here that can read and understand them. They may be able to give you answers.

 

[0791]

So a small update, the vet got back to me.

He said when a bearded dragon is already sick, they are susceptible to even more sickness. Because of that and what he thought was just stress, he put Tubby on the antibiotic. I am not really happy to hear this, because this means he doesn’t have a diagnosis for Tubby to be on this medication. Is this normal to put a beardie on this type of medication as a precaution to something he just MIGHT have/develop? I am so confused. I thought that this medication was used to TREAT, not prevent.

I am still debating on whether I should continue to give him Ceftazidime. He seems to be handling it well, and has actually somewhat improved since we started him on it. I just don’t feel right doing this without knowing exactly why though.

As for the MBD, he said to just continue with my normal habits and let the new UVB work.

 

[KarrieRee]

So a small update, the vet got back to me.

He said when a bearded dragon is already sick, they are susceptible to even more sickness. Because of that and what he thought was just stress, he put Tubby on the antibiotic. I am not really happy to hear this, because this means he doesn’t have a diagnosis for Tubby to be on this medication. Is this normal to put a beardie on this type of medication as a precaution to something he just MIGHT have? I am so confused. I thought that this medication was used to TREAT, not prevent.

I am still debating on whether I should continue to give him Ceftazidime. He seems to be handling it well, and has actually somewhat improved since we started him on it. I just don’t feel right doing this without knowing exactly why though.

And what exactly did you take Tubby into the vet for? We need Tracie to respond to this --- flagging her again
@Drache613

 

[0791]

And what exactly did you take Tubby into the vet for? We need Tracie to respond to this --- flagging her again
@Drache613

I took him for a visit in August for an annual checkup, he was diagnosed by the vet with MBD. He didn’t show improvements, so I took him back on the 16th of this month in which he was given ceftazidime, which is why I wrote this post.

 

[KarrieRee]

I took him for a visit in August for an annual checkup, he was diagnosed by the vet with MBD. He didn’t show improvements, so I took him back on the 16th of this month in which he was given ceftazidime, which is why I wrote this post.

You dont give a antibiotic for MBD --- you get the lighting corrected UVB and calcium supplements -- I reflagged the post to Tracie

 

[0791]

It sounds like your husbandry is on point. If you can get blood work done, and copies of xrays (i think i rememder you saying they took them) and post them here, there are folks here that can read and understand them. They may be able to give you answers.

Sadly, X-rays and blood tests were never offered to me by this vet, so I have neither. I hope to find a vet that will actually give me results when we move here soon.

 

[xp29]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but WHY did the vet diagnose mbd? And if he was just there for a checkup why would the vet expect inprovement? Did he do xrays? Or was there some other symptom that triggered that diagnosis? Unless Tubby had tremors or muscle spasms or something like, i don't think mdb can be accurately diagnosed without xrays.
Please work with Tracie here (drache613) she is a vet tech. If your vet is just doing stuff for the sake of job security she can help you get to the bottom of it.
If you have any paper work post it or message her directly.

 

[0791]

You dont give a antibiotic for MBD --- you get the lighting corrected UVB and calcium supplements -- I reflagged the post to Tracie

The vet didn’t give me anything for his MBD as clarified earlier. His reasoning for prescribing the antibiotic seems to be for prevention of other sicknesses/stress as Tubby was never officially diagnosed with any infection of some sort as mentioned earlier.

 

[xp29]

Ok you posted while i was typing, unless there was obvious indicators, not to be rude i suspect your vet don't have your or Tubby's best interest at heart.