Very Swollen Ey

[Lizard of Light]

A bit ago, my mother called me saying that Ardie’s eyes are looking very swollen and asked me to take a look at the photos and through video call.
I was already nervous enough by how bulbous the eyes looked, and then I saw the eyes themselves and lo, they’re swollen to where he’s stuck staring backwards, with the sclera looking very watery.

He’s been brumating for several months now, according to my mom, after multiple clutches of (infertile) eggs (yes, I still use he/him regardless because animals don’t care and I’ve called him that long enough). But today, she noticed he seemed a bit off and woke him to discover the aforementioned swelling.

Unfortunately, has it’s been over 6 months since I’ve been there in person, I have no idea when this could have first started. Nor can I get an updated spec on temperatures and stuff. Does anyone have any sort of experience with something like this? I’m not having much luck finding similar cases posted online so far. I already told my parents to get him to a vet, fast, but I’m just worried sick now and want to know exactly how bad this situation is.

 

[xp29]

A bit ago, my mother called me saying that Ardie’s eyes are looking very swollen and asked me to take a look at the photos and through video call. View attachment 91342 View attachment 91341
I was already nervous enough by how bulbous the eyes looked, and then I saw the eyes themselves and lo, they’re swollen to where he’s stuck staring backwards, with the sclera looking very watery.

He’s been brumating for several months now, according to my mom, after multiple clutches of (infertile) eggs (yes, I still use he/him regardless because animals don’t care and I’ve called him that long enough). But today, she noticed he seemed a bit off and woke him to discover the aforementioned swelling.

Unfortunately, has it’s been over 6 months since I’ve been there in person, I have no idea when this could have first started. Nor can I get an updated spec on temperatures and stuff. Does anyone have any sort of experience with something like this? I’m not having much luck finding similar cases posted online so far. I already told my parents to get him to a vet, fast, but I’m just worried sick now and want to know exactly how bad this situation is.

@Drache613 is probably the best to ask

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Is there any way that you can get to him, to get him to a vet
if your parents wont take him?
The eyes when swollen to that extent, is usually related to heart or kidney issues most of the time. Since you aren't sure how long the eyes have appeared this way, I would consider this urgent in case it is renal related.
Can you review the tank setup, nutrition, etc for us? Can you also post a picture of her tank setup so we can see the UVB lighting also?

Tracie

 

[Lizard of Light]

Hello,

Is there any way that you can get to him, to get him to a vet
if your parents wont take him?
The eyes when swollen to that extent, is usually related to heart or kidney issues most of the time. Since you aren't sure how long the eyes have appeared this way, I would consider this urgent in case it is renal related.
Can you review the tank setup, nutrition, etc for us? Can you also post a picture of her tank setup so we can see the UVB lighting also?

Tracie

I talked to a reptile vet last night and my dad brought Ardie over to a coworker who had worked as an ER vet (my dad himself is a DVM, but he does research rather than clinical work) and they both think it's a vitamin deficiency. I asked my dad to get the multivitamin drop recommended.

For the setup, i don't have an up to date photo and things could have shuffled around for all I know. I'll need to ask my parents to take a fresh photo later, but the tank is the 40-gallon front-opening desert reptile Exo-Terra.

 

[KarrieRee]

I talked to a reptile vet last night and my dad brought Ardie over to a coworker who had worked as an ER vet (my dad himself is a DVM, but he does research rather than clinical work) and they both think it's a vitamin deficiency. I asked my dad to get the multivitamin drop recommended.

For the setup, i don't have an up to date photo and things could have shuffled around for all I know. I'll need to ask my parents to take a fresh photo later, but the tank is the 40-gallon front-opening desert reptile Exo-Terra.

What are you using for a UVB? a coil or long tube fixture and where in the tank is the UVB-- diet please

 

[Lizard of Light]

What are you using for a UVB? a coil or long tube fixture and where in the tank is the UVB-- diet please

ReptiSun 10.0, the UVB rests along the length of the tank. Diet is mainly leafy greens like mustard, bok choy, kale, etc. Insects get rotated between dubia, superworms, and crickets. He hasn't been eating much lately, according to my parents, and they assumed he was just brumating all this time. Did still eat and poop, but not very much.

 

[Lizard of Light]

Update: We're trying to get ahold of Oxbow's Critical Care for Omnivores. Ardie's also gotten about 200 mg of multivitamin dripped into his mouth. Still lethargic, according to my dad, at the moment.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Ok thanks for the tank information & lighting. How close
is the Reptisun 10 tube bulb to him?
Be sure that the vitamin being given doesn't have an overload of vitamin A, which can be harmful if given in large amounts.
Is there a way that they can get a blood test done on him?
The Critical care would help him with nutritional support since he isn't eating very much on his own right now.

Tracie

 

[Lizard of Light]

So...update on the situation: Ardie had initially improved on vitamin supplements and Critical Care Herbivore and Carnivore mixed, becoming more energetic and the eyeswelling was coming down. But then he didn't get any better, and my parents took him to see a reptile vet today. He was found to be eggbound....with the eggs likely rotting in there. Surgery at best is a 20% chance of survival....

Vet has drawn blood to check liver function, but results won't be back until end of the week at the earliest. I really want to say to just go forward with the surgery since if he's dead either way, at least there's a chance of survival there. But I want to talk to the vet myself first before I officially make a decision. I'm scared and upset because I already lost my dog last year while away from home. I don't want to lose Ardie too....

 

[Lizard of Light]

Update Deuce: Talked to the vet over the phone. So it's not egg-binding so much as follicular stasis and the vet's main concern is if Ardie can handle the surgery. The liver seems enlarged but otherwise looks pretty normal for a bearded dragon. The blood test is to check if there's any liver failure or if it's just inflamed. The latter somewhat improves the prognosis, but his overall condition is still concerning. At the very least though, he was pretty feisty while being examined at the vet, got pretty mad about being on his back and blackbearded at them, etc.

Plan now is to wait for the blood results to come back as Ardie is currently in stable condition, as indicated above. Can only wait and hope the liver is fine and then pray the surgery goes by fine in that case.

 

[xp29]

Update Deuce: Talked to the vet over the phone. So it's not egg-binding so much as follicular stasis and the vet's main concern is if Ardie can handle the surgery. The liver seems enlarged but otherwise looks pretty normal for a bearded dragon. The blood test is to check if there's any liver failure or if it's just inflamed. The latter somewhat improves the prognosis, but his overall condition is still concerning. At the very least though, he was pretty feisty while being examined at the vet, got pretty mad about being on his back and blackbearded at them, etc.

Plan now is to wait for the blood results to come back as Ardie is currently in stable condition, as indicated above. Can only wait and hope the liver is fine and then pray the surgery goes by fine in that case.

Keep us posted and we'll be sending prayers you way. I hope everything turns out ok for you both. I've lost 3 beardies this year so I know first hand how bad it is. Only good vibes and positive thoughts!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It is always a hard decision as to whether or not to do surgery on them. I think that if the liver is not
diseased, then the surgery shouldn't be too stressful. They feel there isn't any egg binding then? Are
they going to do a spaying then?
I'm sure Ardie didn't like being on her back, they usually don't because they can't breathe well.

Let us know how things are going.

Tracie

 

[Lizard of Light]

Hello,

It is always a hard decision as to whether or not to do surgery on them. I think that if the liver is not
diseased, then the surgery shouldn't be too stressful. They feel there isn't any egg binding then? Are
they going to do a spaying then?
I'm sure Ardie didn't like being on her back, they usually don't because they can't breathe well.

Let us know how things are going.

Tracie

Got an email back from the vet:

I just received the blood work for Ardie. Unfortunately I am concerned about a gastric neuroendocrine tumor(GNT). Ardie has elevated glucose. (331.8. Normal 140-282) Her calcium and phosphrous are on the low ends or normal. When they have reproductive disease like follicular statsis that we talked about, calcium and phosphrous are elevated due to trying to move the follicles to the salpinx and shelling the follicles. I do not feel that reproductive disease is the cause of all her issues. It may be apart of it, but with the elevated glucose I am more concerned about the GNT. There are no treatments for it at this time. GNTs typically have a fast spread to other organs. Not all of the metastasis can be grossly appreciated. Her electrolytes on the blood work are also all low. The potassium is critically low (1.6. Normal 3.2-5.4). Her white blood cells are mildly elevated. (19,600. Normal 5640-19,100). The elevation is mostly from heterophils (think neutrophils) and some azurophils. Those are elevated in inflammatory conditions.


Given the blood work results, ultrasound, and overall condition of Ardie, my prognosis for her is poor. I am less concerned about reproductive disease now and more concerned for the GNT. I would recommend euthanasia for Ardie. I am in the office until 7pm today if you would like to call and talk about Ardie if you have time.

I'm going to try and catch him before the day is out, but idk.

I'm no vet, but I know in human patients glucose can be elevated due to stress so I'm not entirely convinced given Ardie has never shown any of the other symptoms of GNT. But, again, I'd need to talk directly to the vet.

EDIT: For reference: he actually has a pretty good appetite, he's very energetic (actually has been headbobbing again, according to my mother), poops regularly without any blood in it, etc. Heck, I just got off a video call with my mom and his eyes look a lot less swollen now, though he's still stuck staring backwards. The latter is the one thing I can see as potentially malignancy-related, but once again, idk.

If anything, he got a bit weak after seeing the vet, and my parents were concerned with how the vet did the blood draw with Ardie on his back. I looked up how it's usually done and the beardie in the vid I found was really chill with someone supporting their chest.

That said, I'm still very worried about the pre-ovulatory follicular stasis and the fact he's been laying eggs like crazy before. I've already been wondering if I should get him spayed, so I feel like he'd need surgery either way. Just not sure I'd trust this vet with it.

I definitely don't think he needs euthanasia just yet.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is little Ardie doing today?
It is very hard to make those decisions. Wait, where did they draw the blood, from the caudal vein in
the tail? I have never heard of them doing a blood draw on their backs. Normally, they are held upright
while the blood draw is done. No wonder she was so upset!
I agree, spaying would probably be a good idea. You definitely need to feel confident in whether or not
the vet has the skills to perform a spay.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[Lizard of Light]

Hello,

How is little Ardie doing today?
It is very hard to make those decisions. Wait, where did they draw the blood, from the caudal vein in
the tail? I have never heard of them doing a blood draw on their backs. Normally, they are held upright
while the blood draw is done. No wonder she was so upset!
I agree, spaying would probably be a good idea. You definitely need to feel confident in whether or not
the vet has the skills to perform a spay.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

So I had talked to the vet end of that day, and first I will say I got clarification that Ardie was only actually on his back when they were doing the ultrasound and couldn't get a better view from the more comfortable positions.

That said, I did discuss my opinion and requested to see the lab report. The glucose was specifically 388, and even though not the highest spike, vet has seen a beardie that died from GNT with that lower range level (I had read that they tend to spike towards the 1000s). I asked if it could be stress-induced hyperglycemia, but that apparently does not typically occur in reptiles. Asides from that, he has a critically low potassium at 1.3, and elevated white counts, most of which are the chronic inflammation indicators.

Remaining results are within normal limits. I later was corrected by my parents that Ardie wasn't eating on his own and is still being force fed Critical Care by my dad, but the rest holds true (and tbh, it's not like Ardie's usually hungry every day to begin with).

Right now, the potassium is a huge surgery risk in addition to the fluid build-up in the abdomen, so I asked if we can just work on correcting that while we wait for Ardie to recover from the vet visit stress. Vet has agreed to figure out what the right dosing would be since he's never had to replenish potassium in a bearded dragon.

He at least shares the gut feeling that even if the diagnosis looks like it could be GNT, something isn't quite right. If it's not GNT, a reproductive tumor is next on his differential list. It's just that the fluid build up and critically low potassium that's the concern for any spaying.

So that's the update for now. I'll be calling again later today to see if he's figured out a dose to prescribe.