Very Sad Situation.

[keith167]

I'll start by saying I've had Dragons for about 10 yrs (and have bred them a few times). Yesterday morning my wife fed one of my Dragons 5 med sized blue worms. She had not yet basked and was probably cold. 15 minutes later She was laying completely black bearding, mouth open and had thrown up two of the blue worms. (The end of the worms looked metallic, like eyeshadow which I have never seen before). I held her in a warm bath for a few minutes. She looked like she was close to death. She's completely paralyzed now. I expected her to not make it thru the night but she's still fighting.
Sadly, My experience w Dragons is that theres nothing I can do for her except comfort her til the end. I'm kind of in shock and have no idea what happened...

 

[KarrieRee]

I'll start by saying I've had Dragons for about 10 yrs (and have bred them a few times). Yesterday morning my wife fed one of my Dragons 5 med sized blue worms. She had not yet basked and was probably cold. 15 minutes later She was laying completely black bearding, mouth open and had thrown up two of the blue worms. (The end of the worms looked metallic, like eyeshadow which I have never seen before). I held her in a warm bath for a few minutes. She looked like she was close to death. She's completely paralyzed now. I expected her to not make it thru the night but she's still fighting.
Sadly, My experience w Dragons is that theres nothing I can do for her except comfort her til the end. I'm kind of in shock and have no idea what happened...

Feed her some activated charcoal I do not know what blue worms are but it sounds like they were toxic --- follow the directions on the package please

 

[keith167]

Feed her some activated charcoal I do not know what blue worms are but it sounds like they were toxic --- follow the directions on the package please

Blue worms, Horned worms, maybe also called Tomato worms?...
I called every pet place etc and no kne has activated charcoal. Health food store does have it. Anyone know how to dose it? I'm gonna try that here in a few...

 

[KarrieRee]

Blue worms, Horned worms, maybe also called Tomato worms?...
I called every pet place etc and no kne has activated charcoal. Health food store does have it. Anyone know how to dose it? I'm gonna try that here in a few...

I am sorry I dont I dont know if it goes by weight I am not sure look at the box when you get it --- call a reptile vet
www.arav.org type in a bigger city zip code near you if your in a small town ---- weigh her on a kitchen food scale in grams --

 

[keith167]

I am sorry I dont I dont know if it goes by weight I am not sure look at the box when you get it --- call a reptile vet
www.arav.org type in a bigger city zip code near you if your in a small town ---- weigh her on a kitchen food scale in grams --

I have a phone consult w an exocitc vet later today. I'm gonna email Tracie as I have gotten good advice from her many times in the past and I buy all my stuff from her as well.
Don't know i can wait tho and may have to try and just use some logic on the amount.

 

[AHBD]

Hi Keith, were these wild ones or from an feeder insect company ? If they were from an actual company they would not be toxic but if caught outdoors they are slightly. Other than that they may have been too large and too many at once that the dragon could not digest. Can you post pics of the dragon as well as the rest of the hornworms if you have any ?

 

[keith167]

Hi Keith, were these wild ones or from an feeder insect company ? If they were from an actual company they would not be toxic but if caught outdoors they are slightly. Other than that they may have been too large and too many at once that the dragon could not digest. Can you post pics of the dragon as well as the rest of the hornworms if you have any ?

They were purchased at a Reptile shop where I've been buying them for years.
I'm hearing now that reptiles can get one bad bug and this can happen. I have some coconut activated charcoal liquid that I'm gonna try. Then I'm gonna do some warm baths and some baby food later if I can get ther to swallow.
She can't move. Its heart breaking...

 

[AHBD]

Since they were farm bred then they aren't toxic. There's a chance that she choked on one or it was lodged in her throat , cutting off air supply until she vomited it out. Beardies can take a few days to recupe after a vomiting episode but if she had her airway blocked that might affect her much worse, almost like a stroke. Still, there's hope so give it some time. Keep her in her tank, the room temps. are not warm enough for her. BTW, did I read in your post history that she is free roaming ? If so then there's opportunity for swallowing foreign objects as well . Best wishes for a successful recovery though, I hope to hear that she improves soon !

 

[keith167]

Hi Keith, were these wild ones or from an feeder insect company ? If they were from an actual company they would not be toxic but if caught outdoors they are slightly. Other than that they may have been too large and too many at once that the dragon could not digest. Can you post pics of the dragon as well as the rest of the hornworms if you have any ?

They were purchased at a Reptile shop where I've been buying them for years.
I'm hearing now that reptiles can get one bad bug and this can happen. I have some coconut activated charcoal liquid that I'm gonna try. Then I'm gonna do some warm baths and some baby food later if I can get ther to swallow

Since they were farm bred then they aren't toxic. There's a chance that she choked on one or it was lodged in her throat , cutting off air supply until she vomited it out. Beardies can take a few days to recupe after a vomiting episode but if she had her airway blocked that might affect her much worse, almost like a stroke. Still, there's hope so give it some time. Keep her in her tank, the room temps. are not warm enough for her. BTW, did I read in your post history that she is free roaming ? If so then there's opportunity for swallowing foreign objects as well . Best wishes for a successful recovery though, I hope to hear that she improves soon !

Maybe she choked. I also spoke to a reptile shop owner who was telling he has heard of reptiles eating a bad feeder before and displaying instant paralysis. Im trying some charcoal and some baths etc.
I doubt she ate anything else. She ate the worms and literally minutes later, in the same spot where she ate them, her basking area, she threw up and was in bad shape.

 

[AHBD]

She probably choked on it then. And no, there's no such thing as a bad insect paralyzing a reptile, some pet shops make things up or just repeat a myth. Or they might have been thinking of how baby dragons can eat a huge insect and become paralyzed because it presses on the spine, it can possibly happen to an adult but it would not be from toxicity. Whatever has happened , I hope she survives and gets through this. Hang in there !

 

[Drache613]

Hello Keith,

I will also email you back but just checking in here. I agree with AHBD that it probably has something to do with her choking
since they can get rather large. I don't think they were toxic though since they weren't from the wild eating tomato leaves, etc.
Keep us posted on her!

Tracie

 

[keith167]

Ok, I dont wanna get ahead of myself but she is showing slight improvements. I gave her some charcoal once. And I've been bathing her and giving her nutrient rich slurries (she may be eating a little bit)and keeping her warm. She's more upright today and less black. I put her in her basking spot after her morning bath and she grumpily walked around in a circle and repositioned herself. This is an improvement over yesterday...

 

[AHBD]

That's great news ! See she wasn't paralyzed, she just choked on the worms and threw them up and it usually takes at least a day or more to recupe from a bout of vomiting so her inactivity made it appear to you that she was paralyzed. Don't force any food in her, she needs to feel better and a few days without food is fine, especially for a chunky dragon.

 

[keith167]

That's great news ! See she wasn't paralyzed, she just choked on the worms and threw them up and it usually takes at least a day or more to recupe from a bout of vomiting so her inactivity made it appear to you that she was paralyzed. Don't force any food in her, she needs to feel better and a few days without food is fine, especially for a chunky dragon.

Man I hope so. Immediately after the incident she had a normal poop. In the bath I have been massaging her belly. She acts like she wants to go again. Then while basking she has peed just a little. Shes also very "gulpy". Her head bobs and she makes a gulping sound like swallowing. Now I'm thinking about a vet visit but i really don't like to do that as it always seems to be a death sentence for dragons.
(Oh, And she prefers "big boned" not "chunky" : ) (Her mother was a giant beast at like 1000grams)

 

[AHBD]

I think she's doing improving and will be even better yet tomorrow. Just let her rest, don't rush the feeding or too many soaks. Soaking is only helping if she drinks.