Unethical?

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Akeath

Gray-bearded Member
My father and I were just having a discussion about my plans to take up breeding (again, sort've) in a few years after I've saved up enough money to do so, and he said that it would be unethical to breed Bearded Dragons because they are not meant for captivity, like dogs and cats are, and would be best in the wild. I kind've see his point, but still! Grr. I saved $450 dollars to get a female and cover the first costs (building her cage, getting her lighting, buying her etc.) and wanted to buy her now so she'd be old enough to breed by the time I had enough money for it, but since I'll be moving back home because of health problems I can't get her without my Dad's consent, since she'll be in his house. And since he has ethical problems with breeding Bearded Dragons, it looks like I probably won't be getting her, although he promised we could talk about it again in a couple of days.
What do you guys think? Is it a little unethical to breed Bearded Dragons? If not, why?
 

h0ndap0w3r

Sub-Adult Member
i dont know if it would be considered unethical, since back before dogs were domesticated they were essentially wolves. horses and almost any other animal have at one point or another have been considered wild animals. I don't really see bearded dragons as being any different. Most of the people have done so out of either necessity ( dogs when they were used for hunting) or horses etc. The other ones have done so for financial gain, puppy mills, etc. . . It is really all perception, but i since he is your dad, if you cannot convince him otherwise. it's looking like you arent going to be breeding dragons anytime soon. I hope to do so in the future, mostly for a hobby to see if i can, and a bit of financial gain. Dragons cost so much money, it would be nice if i could make some of it back.

just my .02
 

Catalyst

BD.org Addict
I don't believe it's unethical to breed bearded dragons provided that you've done your research, you treat your dragons right, give them the best husbandry, and your motives are good. To me, a wild animal, one who shouldn't be kept captive, is one who is never truly domesticated, one who always has some element of "wild" to their nature, and one who's needs can't truly be met in their entirety in captivity. Wolves, for instance, would fall into this category as would many zoo animals. Beardies, on the other hand, can thrive in captivity and many appear to enjoy the stimulation that comes with life with humans. It takes a specific set of requirements to fully meet their environmental and care needs, but as long as you're willing to put forth the effort to make sure a dragon gets what it needs, there's nothing unethical about keeping them. The dragon gets stimulation while also benefiting from the safety of captivity - nothing trying to eat them, no bad weather to get through, no daily struggle to find enough food for survival.

That being said, unfortunately many don't put forth this effort and many dragons are kept as ornamental pets in enclosures too small for any living thing to spend their lives in. It would be unethical for someone who keeps their dragons in that manner to breed, because in that instance, yes, the dragon would be better off in the wild. Sure they're safe and fed, but they can't meet their natural needs/instincts for exercise, activity, exploration, and general stimulation.

There is also the question of what will happen to the babies you breed? Even if you get a high quality male and a high quality female and have them in ideal enclosures under ideal husbandry conditions, are you willing to screen the people who buy the babies from you and educate them, or would you sell them to whoever replied to your ad because you need the money and space as the babies start to grow?

Basically the question comes down to: are you making the lives of the animals better for them, or not?

Ultimately though, since it is your dad's house I can understand not breeding while you're living there. As far as your female dragon goes, perhaps you could outline to him the ways her life will be good with you. She'll (hopefully) have a large tank with naturalistic conditions, and then also have lots of time out of that tank to interact with you and explore the world around her. She'll have a healthy balanced diet and be free from the threat of predators. Perhaps after your dad sees the relationship between you and your dragon he'll come to change his mind on the concept of dragons in captivity.
 

beardiebandit

Hatchling Member
you could always own a female with out breeding her. and then if the situation changes you can breed if you like. will your dad go for that?
 

xJaZx

Hatchling Member
Then ask him if it is unethical that they have a longer healthier lifetime in captivity..

:p
 

Thor's Mom

Sub-Adult Member
BD's have been domesticated. None of them are taken from the wild. As long as they are properly cared for and you, as the breeder make sure to educate the people who want to purchase your dragons, as to what their needs are, I would hardly call it unethical. It's about as unethical as breeding a dog or a cat IMHO. :D
 

Akeath

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
I had a long, involved talk with my Dad this morning. He brought up things ranging from my humanization of animals, to the recession, to what would happen if my health declined more and I couldn't hold a job, to what would happen if there was something wrong with the animals and I was forced to keep one.
In the end, he agreed that I should be able to breed them, and get the female for Hope now. We decided I would get her in summer to early fall, which gives me time to prove I'm not too sick to hold a job, to test Hope for adenovirus at least once, to build her cage and get all of her supplies ready, and to have more Beardies for sale for selection. So that is what I plan to do.
 

npedersen

Hatchling Member
You have to ask yourself why you want to breed Beardies. Is it for the money, is it so that you can do research on the species, is it so that you can see what color morphs you can come up with? You really have to figure out why you want to do it, and then decide if the reason is unethical.
Have you considered what to do with the dragons you can't sell?

Nick
 

Akeath

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
I was planning on giving the ones I can't sell up for free.
I want to breed Bearded Dragons because of memories of stealing eggs from the refrigerator when I was little and trying to hatch them. I want to breed Bearded Dragons because every time I look at Hope my heart feels full, and after he is gone I want another Bearded Dragon of his blood line to look at and feel full again. I want to breed Bearded Dragons because of memories of hatching Hope, of the thrilling moment when I opened that incubator and saw a little, precious, creature that was dependent on me to take care of it, and I'd go through a lot to duplicate that moment. And I want to send healthy animals out into the world, ones that have had a good start in life, with good instructions for the owners to continue that life. I want to breed Bearded Dragons because a a big part of me yearns to take care of little creatures, and Bearded Dragons are one of the best little creatures I know of. :oops: Or something like that.
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Beautifully put,that was a terrific answer!I am glad you are getting your 2nd beardie and also very glad that you will be doing this the right way.Congrats!
 

Akeath

Gray-bearded Member
Original Poster
Well, that's all assuming that Hope tests negative for Adeno, of course. I can't even risk another Beardie in the home if he tests positive, that will be it. I'm losing sleep worrying about that test. :|
 
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