Tylosin Vs. F10sc For RI *(Surpise Eggs, possible surgery)*

[hmwyer]

Yes, thank you! As do I!
No problem! I always dislike seeing posts when I'm looking for guidance that don't tell you what happens in the end even if what they tried didn't work and something else did instead. It's good to share what did or didn't work to help others, so I swore I would update with my end result when I posted this topic, even if it turned out not to work.

And that's exactly why I bought the hornworms! Haha! I kept reading ANY dragon would go nuts for them! I was disappointed when she didn't. In her defense though, **gross out warning** I did grind up some worms that got too big in a mini food chopper the first time I got them. I didn't realize they grow to 5 times their size almost overnight, but she seemed to enjoy the bug soup! :lol: She just never attacked any worms even after she tried the 'soup'. Hopefully though, I can change that soon. ^_^

 

[Claudiusx]

Haha!

They do grow really fast! You can slow it down the next time you buy them by keeping them cooler. 55 basically stops them growing. I just keep them in a cold area of my house once they get near the size I want.

-Brandon

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It's great to hear she has improved so much!
At least she seems to have a better appetite now also.
How is her appetite, slowly coming back too? I am so glad her respiratory issues have
essentially gone away now. Keep us posted on her progress.

Tracie

 

[hmwyer]

Oh! Thanks for the tip Brandon! I'll definitely do that next time!

And, Tracie, yes her appetite is better. Still not yet where I want it to be, HOWEVER, I did manage to get her squeezed into the vet this Friday for attempt #2 at blood work. I was already taking one of my snakes for a check up, so I was like "Hmmm.....let's see if I can get a blood panel again since I'm already going down there." I like to take 2 or more animals per trip since it is a 2 hour drive, so hopefully if he's able to get enough blood this time we might be able to shed some light on if she's deficient in anything, or has any underlying problems. I hate to sound.....hopeful to find something, but I really do kind of hope he finds something so that I can have an answer for her behavior and be able to correct it. I hate guessing and not seeing improvement, and just not being able to help her. If I was a betting person, based on my recent research, I think her issue MIGHT be a vitamin B deficiency, but I could be way off. It just seems to fit the most out of everything I've ever read (apparent lack of sight, muscle spasms, twitching, head slowly drooping, bad posture). Does anyone know, if that is the case, I have read that lack of Vitamin B can cause blindness, among other things.....she has shown signs of not being able to really see or know where she is (walking in circles, running into things, just totally lying where she is out of frustration) and I can only get her to eat if I put it under her nose or rub the food on her face so she knows it's there. But my question is, does anyone know if the VitB blindness is permanent or does it come back when she's got it in her system to proper levels again?

 

[Claudiusx]

Saw you were online, how's your girl doing for you? Hoping everything is good!

does anyone know if the VitB blindness is permanent or does it come back when she's got it in her system to proper levels again?

Just saw this sorry! I honestly don't really know. Maybe Tracie would.

-Brandon

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I would not think that a vitamin B deficiency would yield permanent blindness, or haven't
seen anything that would indicate that in studies.
Do the vitamins you are giving her have vitamin B in them?
Is there anything else that could be causing eye issues that you can think of?
How are her colors, does she have a black beard at all, or is her beard normal color right
now?

Tracie

 

[hmwyer]

She's doing pretty good. Just her eyes don't look how they used to and that hump she gets when she walks really urks me. I called about xrays yesterday and the girl said they would do an exam to see if they were needed and I started to explain I WANT them done regardless of the vet's opinion because I'm just so lost as to her behaviour and appearance (running into stuff, walking in circles sometimes, tail being a limp noodle and getting all bent up when she walks, the hump she gets when walking, Sitting on her back feet, not eating on her own unless I literally put food on her nose and she licks it off, and not being like super active except like 2 times a day just to run around in a circle then lay back down).
And, no, she surprisingly isn't black bearding at all. It's staying it's normal coloration. And her colors are looking good also. And the vitamin B1 I had been giving was 100mg per tablet and so I did the whole tablet a few time in a bigger mix of repashy because I knew she wouldn't est it all at once anyways and it's water soluble so she wouldn't OD on it anyways, but then the herptivite had some Vit B1 in it, so I only have been giving her the Vitamin B1 tablet once a week. So it's been something like Monday I give just Bitamin B1, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday is the herptivite, and Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday are calcium days. Idk, maybe I'm over doing it now, to make up for not having the herptivite until just a month ago, but I will say her twitches in her thighs and hips and tail areas have gone that I can see. She still doesn't appear to see well, but she seems to be more "alert" when looking around and has run into less stuff also. Also, dosing on the vitamins and calcium, to give you an idea of the amount, I mix 1-2 teaspoons of repashy into a pudding like consistency and add in half a pinch (I have a measuring spoon that is literally labelled 'pinch', but I only use half because a full pinch scoop just seems like way too much to me) of the vitamins or calcium, whatever I'm doing that day. Then I take a stick of butternut squash and scoop up some repashy on it. Rub it on her nose and when she licks it off she goes crazy licking and twisting her head biting the air without really looking what she's doing so I have to chase her mouth with the stick of squash so she can actually eat it. But yeah, not sure if the half pinch is too much or not enough, but a whole pinch just really seemed like way too much compared to the food I was feeding. I'm not sure.
As for any other eye issues. I had thought maybe an infection, but they only water up like she crying when she eats and other than that nothing else seems wrong besides they are just dark with no real definitive white of her eyes or pupil, it's just oddly dark. Not black, it's still like a brownish color of just her eye color, but there's just no definition to her eyeball. Like it always a drawing that got smudged or something. I have eyedrops from the vet for another animal and he said I could use it for her too if I wanted, but said she didn't look infected to him, however offered no explanation for her eyes. He's a good vet for around here, but I wouldn't say he's 100% in the know on beardies, so I kind of will always look for second opinions.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is so frustrating about her eyes not looking right. I am not sure what could be going on.
She wouldn't have cataracs would she? Have you used any antibiotic eye ointment for her?
Does the new UVB light seem to be helping her at all?
So the twitching seems to have improved some? I am glad to hear that she is alert though
it seems like she is happy. At least she really likes the food mixture that you make up for her
that will help with her nutrition. I wouldn't give too much vitamins, etc, for too long just so she
doesn't get oversupplemented.
Has the hump on her back improved at all when she walks?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[hmwyer]

Her hump is still there when walking, but sadly the respiratory issues seem to be coming back, so I am doing another round of treatments. I'm just going to to nebulize until I am out of the meds since there isn't much left. It all started after a particularly drink heavy bath. I make the water very shallow, almost a puddle so she won't put her whole head in the water, but she seemed to have drank for so long that she never stopped to breathe and I think inhaled a little water at the end and very quickly coughed and I watched her a few days afterwards and she begin swallowing and breathing hard again and there was mucous again when eating. Also, she seems to not swallow her food right away and leaves it in her bear pouch area, so I have to wait until she decides to swallow it all until giving her more food.
So I'm back to that and by day 3 she's perking up again. But she is nose/face rubbing like crazy! Clearly she can't be trusted in the bath even with supervision! So plan B for hydration is to just to mist the squash before feeding. No more baths unless she runs through her poo. But she is pooping fairly regularly now, so that's great news for her. I thought about a cataract, but don't the eyes usually cloud over if that's the case? I have some tobramycin solution that the vet said I could try on her eyes, but I can never gets her to open them when trying to put them in, so it just goes all over her eyelid. :/ She knows what I'm trying to do, so if anyone has a trick to get her to leave her eye open, that would be cool to hear. The UVB light doesn't appear to have changed anything, but the water she drank and the weight she has put on seems to be what has helped. Could her eyes just be sooo sunken in from being under weight that they just look off? Also, on a good note, she is getting fat pads again! They are tiny, but they exist!! ^_^ Should I do vitamin powder like 2-3 times a week and calcium 2 times a week and nothing on the other days? Like maybe M-W-F vitamins, and Tuesday and Thursday Calcium, and Saturday and Sunday just just plain food with nothing added? Or is that even too much?
I called the vet about getting an xray for the hump issue and they said that she would need an exam and the vet would decide if they were needed. I was like "But, no, like I WANT the xrays to rule out anything." But I was at work and had customers so I couldn't fully explain why I wanted them to argue me case and I had to get off the phone, so I'm going to call back when I have a half day and can call long enough to explain myself and hopefully get them to agree to xrays anyways. I will still pay for an exam if they insist, but I want xrays no matter what. Like I'm not going to drive 2 hrs and take a day off work and then end up them refusing to do an xray, you know? It would be a waste of time, gas, and money and would solve nothing. Even if the results are normal like the blood work at least it's further ruling out any issues, which is what I want to do, so I can figure this out and stop guessing.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

So sorry that her respiratory issues have reappeared a little bit. How is she doing today?
They do tend to put their heads under water many times when drinking. Some drink heavier
than others but it can sometimes get them into trouble. I hope the treatments help her out
& you can get rid of the symptoms.
For now, maybe leave out her baths & just add extra moisture to her squash or other foods
so she doesn't keep on inhaling too much water. LOL
That is good to hear her fat pads are going up some now, I hope that continues. I wouldn't
give vitamins more than 2 times per week & she needs calcium 3 times per week.
So are her eyes looking better with the use of the tobramycin?
Were you able to get some x-rays?
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[hmwyer]

Sorry for a late reply. Work has been keeping me busy, so I've not stopped to reply. But anyways, haven't been able to convince them of an xray yet. They have a new exotic vet according to their newsletter email sent out the other day, SO I'm thinking if trying her. I've been running low on tylan and dosing once a day, and skipped a few days. Still not good on the mucus front. Not coughing yet, but mucus mouth came back and gulping and breathing deeply. So, sadly the only tractor supply that has tylan now is the 200 kind, not the 50. I imagine I can just dilute it 4 times as much as I do now, right?
I'm doing 10ml distilled water and 1ml tylan50 right now.
So would I just do 40ml water to 1ml tylan 200?? I hope so. I am going to the store tomorrow to buy it, but I'll await a reply before dosing, in case I am wrong.
Also, just weighed her. She gained 20grams since last visit! Yay!! And fat pads are still baby pads, but there, and also her left arm shed and so did her eyes! Oh, and she's pooing nearly twice a week now and is [somewhat] basking on her own! (She's been sitting like on her basking ledge/hide, but down towards the bottom where it's not as hot. But that's a huge deal for her. She never would go on the ledge of her own accord.)
Other than fighting this respiratory, and still unsure of the hump thing, I think she's made several big strides in her health compared to this time last year and the year before. I am excited to continue this upward trend! ^_^ I just need to medicate a bit more, since my giving her a bath caused her to inhale water. :/

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is completely understandable, life gets hectic!
The vet still wont do any x-rays? That is very frustrating indeed.
Yes, you can do 10mg of Tylan to 1ml of water which should last 10-15 minutes & you
can give treatment twice per day. Or do 20mg per 2mls of water & use half. You can make
up a big batch & keep it in the refrigerator until you need to use it.
That's great she has gained some weight then, so she has improved some. Do try to keep her
a little warmer overnight though to help out her system right now.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[hmwyer]

So....I was over diluting the first go round? I had Tylan50 before and was doing 10ml of water per 1ml meds. And I do the same for the Tylan 200? Oops! Maybe that's why didn't fully work last time. Well, that and the over zealous drinking in the bath. Okay, so 10ml per 1ml of Tylan200? Just bought it and am going to dose, but want to be sure before I do.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

You may have been overdiluting the Tylan. There isn't much on nebulizing with it, but you
can go by the standards of IM use. It is a pretty safe drug to use.
That will be fine, it is dilute enough. Just do a 10-15 minute treatment 1-2 times per day.
How is she doing today?

Tracie

 

[hmwyer]

Okay, so I realize this has been a while, but she is doing better with the tylan200, but I noticed 2 things. One I think she either injured her tail from how often she steps on it or burnt ot from the steamer in the bin. It I black and hard on the last 1 inch and looks like it is dying and shrinking about half an inch up. I am using a betadine to water solution and leaving her tail in it for 5 mins and applying plain neosporin. I also put the steamer for the meds in a separate container in the tub to avoid her getting too close to it.
Secondly, I just looked at the stinking tylan200 bottle and it's expired.....they sold me meds that expired 7/2019.....is it okay to continue use with this?? Also, still eating, moving around more and also shedding in even more place including her eyes and upper tail/hip area.