Tremors, any advice?

[rigormortis]

Hi there guys, so I'm not new here but for some reason, I cannot get into my old account from 2010 or so.
So first of all I have a male beardie named Spike and he is 11 years old. 2-3 months ago he started to develop tremors (his muscles started twitching), and he became blind on one eye (no swellings, no mucous) so I started giving him liquid calcium via syringe for 2 months because I thought that he had trouble digesting and absorbing powder calcium, but there were little to no changes so I took my little man to the vet last week, unfortunately, we couldn't draw blood because he was stressed and no blood was coming out (I also studied as a vet tech specialising in reptiles so I know how hard it is to draw blood from reptiles) I was rather disappointed because I'd love to know whether his organs are okay.
He also became more agitated and seems as if he is in pain (always black bearding, giving me the stink eye, doesn't want to be touched much, especially his tail is extra sensitive to touch). I was suspecting broken bones or a disability or something but he moves around just fine and defecates just fine as well.
Fast forward we did an RTG and apparently, there is a //calcification// in his spine (5th vertebra from his tail upward I think) basically, I saw a hole in his vertebra. Apparently, all his tremors are due to neurological issues because of his messed up spine and there isn't really anything that I can do because it's due to old age? The vet suggested giving him hyaluronic acid and collagen however I have no idea where to get this or order this from. We will try to draw blood from him again in the summer to see if he can get some pain medication.
I asked the vet to give him a B1+B6 injection to help with the tremors a bit.
His set up is: 50Watt heating (35-37 degrees Celsius on basking spot) plus he has an Arcadia 12% UVB light
His diet consists of roaches, veggies and the repashy veggie burger for beardies.

I'd like to ask: has anyone experienced anything similar? Can I even acquire hyaluronic acid or collagen for reptiles?

 

[KarrieRee]

All the medical questions need to be addressed by Tracie our vet tech mod on here
where is the Arcadia placed? And what is the distance you have it at?

 

[rigormortis]

All the medical questions need to be addressed by Tracie our vet tech mod on here
where is the Arcadia placed? And what is the distance you have it at?

The Arcadia is placed on top of his tank around 50cm above him. He also gets natural sunlight in summer. Should I tag Tracie or should I message her privately?

 

[KarrieRee]

50 cm is too far-- that's 20 inches-- and if it's on top of a screen that's a fine mesh type like a screen door your dragon is getting very little uvb-- rays - I recommend you get it inside the tank and have distance 12-15 inches directly above the basking decor- you can PM drache613 - find her name the profile will come up left side of page- please get your uvb situated

 

[rigormortis]

50 cm is too far-- that's 20 inches-- and if it's on top of a screen that's a fine mesh type like a screen door your dragon is getting very little uvb-- rays - I recommend you get it inside the tank and have distance 12-15 inches directly above the basking decor- you can PM drache613 - find her name the profile will come up left side of page- please get your uvb situated

Alright so I measured it once again because I wasn't so sure about the 50cms. It's actually 35cm plus he has a log there which he can climb on and be up to 15cm close to it. I don't have a mesh screen basically it's an open space where the UVB set up fits perfectly and I couldn't find any holders so I had to place 1 book on each end to hold it.

 

[KarrieRee]

Ok so no obstruction is good-- so the distance of 35 cm is good - I would PM Tracie drache613 see what she thinks

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That distance sounds ok, if it isn't blocked by screen. Do you have any pictures you could
post for us? The Arcadia D3 12% tube is a great bulb, nice & bright.
At 11 years of age, he might just need a little more vitamins or minerals, because like people,
with age, nutritional requirements can change.
That is too bad they weren't able to get any blood from him, that is rough. It can be challenging
to draw blood from the caudal vein. If the vet is trained, they can attempt a blood draw from the
abdominal vein or ventral vein from the side of his body.
you a site where you can purchase HA but not sure on collagen but I am sure we could do
some searching & find some collagen. You could consider trying CBD oil too which has been
showing a lot of success with reptiles as well as mammals.

Tracie

 

[rigormortis]

Hello,

That distance sounds ok, if it isn't blocked by screen. Do you have any pictures you could
post for us? The Arcadia D3 12% tube is a great bulb, nice & bright.
At 11 years of age, he might just need a little more vitamins or minerals, because like people,
with age, nutritional requirements can change.
That is too bad they weren't able to get any blood from him, that is rough. It can be challenging
to draw blood from the caudal vein. If the vet is trained, they can attempt a blood draw from the
abdominal vein or ventral vein from the side of his body.
you a site where you can purchase HA but not sure on collagen but I am sure we could do
some searching & find some collagen. You could consider trying CBD oil too which has been
showing a lot of success with reptiles as well as mammals.

Tracie

I'll try to get some pictures ASAP.
Yes I was kind of expecting that his metabolism might have slowed down even more and that the possibility of him not absorbing vitamins and minerals properly is rather high at his age.
When it comes to drawing blood, we tried poking him 3-4 times without a result so we stopped and decided to postpone it until at least summer, I was scared that he might go into shock from all the stress and die during the blood draw. Unfortunately in my country, we do not have a lot of vets who specialize in reptiles (kinda regret that I didn't continue studying that field) so they can only draw blood from the vein found in the tail or after anaesthetizing it is possible to draw blood from under their tongue but that is also not a possibility due to his age.

I did some research about Fluker's liquid vitamin and calcium supplement, however, I'm not sure whether it is possible to ship to Europe and what the shipping costs will be.
Do you, by any chance, have experience with Fluker's?

I will look into cbd oil as well, it's not legal in my country yet so hopefully they will legalize it soon.

Thank you.

 

[kingofnobbys]

All the medical questions need to be addressed by Tracie our vet tech mod on here
where is the Arcadia placed? And what is the distance you have it at?

The Arcadia is placed on top of his tank around 50cm above him. He also gets natural sunlight in summer. Should I tag Tracie or should I message her privately?

Is the 12% ontop a fine mesh lid ?
Is the 12% tube a t8 or a t5 ?

50cm is too far away even for an arcadia 12% t5 tube that's in a good reflector hood and unobstructed. 30cm is much more like it.

Bumping up the UVA flux by about 2x will cure the tremors pretty quickly ( I've seen this with one of my dragons when I forgot when my UV source was due for replacement , replaced the source and the tremors went away in almost immediately ( took a few days ).

Keep in mind that a fine mesh lid will obstruct over 40% of the UVA & UVB , so you need to compensate by moving the basking spot 40% closer or hanging the UVB fitting UNDER the lid.

I think the issue if due to inadequate UVA exposure long term.

 

[rigormortis]

All the medical questions need to be addressed by Tracie our vet tech mod on here
where is the Arcadia placed? And what is the distance you have it at?

The Arcadia is placed on top of his tank around 50cm above him. He also gets natural sunlight in summer. Should I tag Tracie or should I message her privately?

Is the 12% ontop a fine mesh lid ?
Is the 12% tube a t8 or a t5 ?

50cm is too far away even for an arcadia 12% t5 tube that's in a good reflector hood and unobstructed. 30cm is much more like it.

Bumping up the UVA flux by about 2x will cure the tremors pretty quickly ( I've seen this with one of my dragons when I forgot when my UV source was due for replacement , replaced the source and the tremors went away in almost immediately ( took a few days ).

Keep in mind that a fine mesh lid will obstruct over 40% of the UVA & UVB , so you need to compensate by moving the basking spot 40% closer or hanging the UVB fitting UNDER the lid.

I think the issue if due to inadequate UVA exposure long term.

There is no obstruction, so no mesh lid whatsoever, it's completely open. I got the T8 arcadia and ordered a reflector for it as well.
Apparently the issue (as stated in my post) according to the vet, the tremors are neurological because of his old spine. I tried giving him liquid calcium via a syringe but there weren't any changes at all (he received liquid calcium for 2 months 0.1ml every other day)

 

[kingofnobbys]

T8 cf T5

at 35cm , a 12% t8 is not going to provide sufficient UVA or UVB even with a good reflector and no obstruction.
UVA flux is TOO low and will cause neurological issues , I'm surprised the vet didn't explain the need for adequate UVA to you.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

You are using a T8 tube then?
As suggested, a 6-8 inch distance is always a good idea since those are not real strong,
so I am glad you don't have it mounted on top of a screen.
I agree, drawing blood is not an easy procedure. I have not seen or heard of drawing from
the tongue & wouldn't recommend that for sure, even with anesthesia. It can be quite a
stressful ordeal for them.
I have never personally used Flukers or haven't in a long time. Most companies now, do
tend to ship internationally.
One thing you can try for mineral supplementation is getting some black strap molasses or
even regular molasses to give to him, daily. Just a dab is fine, it is mineral rich.
How is he doing today?

Tracie