Superworms Vs Butterworms

[SkittlesK]

How come super worms are considered a staple and butter worms are not.?
What is the nutritional comparison

Thanks.

 

[KarrieRee]

How come super worms are considered a staple and butter worms are not.?
What is the nutritional comparison

Thanks.

Super worms are not a staple feeder -- they are a treat worm like butter worms --

 

[SkittlesK]

oh okay.
I see it says treat.
Thanks.

 

[JohnLillywhite23]

As stated previously, superworms and butterworms are to be treated as “treats”. An excellent staple protein source would be dubia roaches. Crickets are an industry leader, but dubias are so much better than crickets due to the lack of chitin and the higher amount of protein.

 

[ChileanTaco]

I agree, and there are also other benefits of dubias over crickets:
- can more easily be confined in a bowl for feeding
- won't gnaw on the dragon if escaping into the tank
- don't carry so much parasites
- not smelly, not noisy

I feed my dragon mostly dubias (sparingly superworms and mealworms) and it even happens sometimes that when I offer a superworm he doesn't want it and prefers a dubia.
(Crickets I have never tried and I will not do so; butterworms, BSFL, silkworms and other feeder insects frequently mentioned are not available here.)

Regarding chitin: It is true that they have less than crickets (and that it is a benefit that they have less), but they have some like every insect does, so not totally lack it.

 

[Claudiusx]

Thats the beauty of the internet.

Superworms have been a staple insect for my dragons for over 20 years. And I know dozens of breeders and dozens more hobbyists who have used superworms as staple feeders. I'd argue we see way less health issues with superworms than we do with dubias.

Don't confuse opinions with facts.

-Brandon

 

[ChileanTaco]

@Claudiusx

I had used only mealworms and superworms for some months as I had no access to dubias. (Was fine with doing so, dragon is healthy, not overweight).

I use them more sparingly now (adult dragon, easily eats veggies, does not tend to overeat (can leave him alone with a multiple-day supply of insects and when I come back there are still some), often even refuses superworms when offered both them and dubias - preferred superworms when younger) but not as rare as a "treat" would be.
(For me, I would define a "treat" as something super rarely fed and even considered as "too high in calories, but I can live it with my pet eating it to get the medicine down", "once in a while as a surprise" and thus should not be a major contributor to the average calorie intake. Like: cat and a can of tuna. Or: human and ice cream.)

Regarding "facts" (as they are very important to me): Are there any reliable studies regarding what wild bearded dragons eat? (I know this can also be misleading as likely on average they would have to be more active.) Nutrition value of different feeders vs. what bearded dragons need?
Observations like yours give us valuable hints as "anecdotes" (what they are, scientifically: a small number of cases), but if there's more, e.g. research, that would be interesting.
Regarding nutritional value I found for the superworm: 46.80% proteins, 43.64% lipids, 8.17% ashes, 1.39% carbohydrates (source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157518312195?via=ihub, maybe not accessible to everybody, I accessed it out of a university's network)

 

[SkittlesK]

My beardie doesn't like the refrigerated bugs.
He would probably turn up mealworms

He's also turned up waxworms. I gave him 3-5.
He likes super worms.

 

[ChileanTaco]

My beardie doesn't like the refrigerated bugs.

I guess with "refrigerated" you mean freeze-dried or soft but also dead insects?
I only feed live insects. (And I guess my dragon won't eat the dead ones, as he just isn't eating insects that aren't moving much even if they are alive. If one doesn't wiggle or run much, he's eating another one.)

 

[SkittlesK]

I guess with "refrigerated" you mean freeze-dried or soft but also dead insects?
I only feed live insects. (And I guess my dragon won't eat the dead ones, as he just isn't eating insects that aren't moving much even if they are alive. If one doesn't wiggle or run much, he's eating another one.)

wax worms and butter worms are refrigerated.
I believe you refrigerate mealworms too.

"The cooler temperatures will delay the process of metamorphosis, which stops them from continuing their life cycle and turning into beetles. Therefore, store your container of mealworms in your refrigerator (at 45-50 degrees F), this will cause them to go into a dormant state and be usable for feeding for 6-10 weeks."

 

[ChileanTaco]

wax worms and butter worms are refrigerated.
I believe you refrigerate mealworms too.

I'm not refrigerating them.
I know it is possible to do so to keep them longer, and I see no problem in doing so - I'm just not doing that.
(I often get very small ones and I fatten them up, i.e. let them grow bigger. I start with feeding my dragon the few largest ones, and the other ones grow large over time. Ordering them in larger amounts won't save me money - I can order them here in boxes of 200 mealworms which is cheaper than 100, but above they don't give a discount neither on worms nor shipping.)

Do you think your dragon is not eating them because they are refrigerated, or it's just a coincidence that your dragon does not like these species?

 

[SkittlesK]

I'm not refrigerating them.
I know it is possible to do so to keep them longer, and I see no problem in doing so - I'm just not doing that.
(I often get very small ones and I fatten them up, i.e. let them grow bigger. I start with feeding my dragon the few largest ones, and the other ones grow large over time. Ordering them in larger amounts won't save me money - I can order them here in boxes of 200 mealworms which is cheaper than 100, but above they don't give a discount neither on worms nor shipping.)

Do you think your dragon is not eating them because they are refrigerated, or it's just a coincidence that your dragon does not like these species?

I think it's because they are refrigerated.
I offered both butterworms and waxworms.

I can't grow the waxworms/butterworms.

 

[HyperLollipop]

Hi, I'm glad this is a recent thread because I just bought a cup of 50 superworms. I usually buy my bugs online with same-day delivery. Last week they did not have crickets in stock because the shipping schedule was off due to the holiday, so I got a cup of mealworms and that was all. I don't like feeding them so often because of their hard shell but I needed bugs so that's what I got.
Since all of my siblings are home now for the summer they want some more variety than just crickets and greens and veggies, and I'm always open to giving Herman new things in his diet. My brother who usually cleans up the poop asked me for bigger worms, so I got superworms, and I had no idea what I was in for. Those things are huge and I think it will be awhile until I will be okay going near them (which is fine, my brothers love bugs and will happily feed them to Herman). And now I did a bit more research (which I should have done before ordering tbh) I found out that they're supposed to be used as treats. So basically, my question is whether or not the superworms can be fed as a staple, at least for the week, or if I should buy crickets? I just don't want to buy them if they're not going to get eaten since they die fast.
Sorry if this isn't the clearest. But basically any and all tips for superworms are welcome.

 

[SkittlesK]

I just got a 50 Ct too.
I needed feeders.
I was trying the silkworms but they are hard to grow to size.

I will feed mine off for the week but try to get silkworms.

I noticed they're addictive and they will go a month without eating anything if you give them too many super worms.
& super worms are fattening

I would feed for the week if your bearded dragon needs to put on weight or is underweight.
It wouldn't hurt to feed some of the superworms, but I wouldn't feed them all.

 

[HyperLollipop]

I just got a 50 Ct too.
I needed feeders.
I was trying the silkworms but they are hard to grow to size.

I will feed mine off for the week but try to get silkworms.

I noticed they're addictive and they will go a month without eating anything if you give them too many super worms.
& super worms are fattening

I would feed for the week if your bearded dragon needs to put on weight or is underweight.
It wouldn't hurt to feed some of the superworms, but I wouldn't feed them all.

He is not underweight as far as I know. He just hasn't had any protein for a few days since I wasn't able to get the insects until today but by the time they came it was too late to feed him. I know beardies can go awhile without food, but I also know that in the summer months Herman is at his most active and I want him to have enough energy to continue moving around so much.
Do you think I should order crickets tomorrow so he doesn't get too addicted to the superworms?