Sunken fats pads possibly related to laying eggs. Should I worry?

[mactac]

Our 2 year old beardie laid about 6 eggs over the course of a week. Since then, we've noticed that the fat pads on her head were very sunken.
I cannot say 100% sure that they were not like this before, but I *think* they were fine before that.

She does not eat a lot, and we supplement her food with syringe veggies and protein. We add vitamins, serrapeptase and a bit of milk thistle (due to ADV). We have been giving her extra calcium since the eggs.

I was wondering:

1. Is it normal to lose fat pads like this after eggs?
2. If so, how long do they take to come back (assuming normal eating)? It's been about 3 weeks so far after the eggs
3. I was thinking that if it's not the eggs, it might be due to her Adenovirus, and possibly malnutrition due to stomach lining damage. If so, is there anything we can do to help?
4. Any other suggestions/advice/ideas?

Her UV/heat setup is good (100 degrees basking, T5 bulb that has been tested). She has been fairly healthy in the last year or so in spite of her ADV, but does go through periods of not eating, and when that happens we ramp up the syringe food. She had a VERY hard time when she was young due to the ADV, and we almost lost her at about 3 months, but she powered through with a ton of care.

Here are some pictures:

 

[xp29]

Our 2 year old beardie laid about 6 eggs over the course of a week. Since then, we've noticed that the fat pads on her head were very sunken.
I cannot say 100% sure that they were not like this before, but I *think* they were fine before that.

She does not eat a lot, and we supplement her food with syringe veggies and protein. We add vitamins, serrapeptase and a bit of milk thistle (due to ADV). We have been giving her extra calcium since the eggs.

I was wondering:

1. Is it normal to lose fat pads like this after eggs?
2. If so, how long do they take to come back (assuming normal eating)? It's been about 3 weeks so far after the eggs
3. I was thinking that if it's not the eggs, it might be due to her Adenovirus, and possibly malnutrition due to stomach lining damage. If so, is there anything we can do to help?
4. Any other suggestions/advice/ideas?

Her UV/heat setup is good (100 degrees basking, T5 bulb that has been tested). She has been fairly healthy in the last year or so in spite of her ADV, but does go through periods of not eating, and when that happens we ramp up the syringe food. She had a VERY hard time when she was young due to the ADV, and we almost lost her at about 3 months, but she powered through with a ton of care.

Here are some pictures:

Her pads are low and she looks dehydrated also. Load her up with calcium she will be depleted.
You could also supplement some omnivore critical care. It's loaded with nutrients and vitamins.

 

[mactac]

Her pads are low and she looks dehydrated also. Load her up with calcium she will be depleted.
You could also supplement some omnivore critical care. It's loaded with nutrients and vitamins.

Thanks!
Yes, her pads are low.. that is what prompted me to post about this as I'm concerned.

She always seems to be dehydrated and I feed her water every day - she drinks a lot.

I have been giving her extra calcium like I said, though to the point where I'm worried I'm giving her too much.

I will also give her some critical care, though I think what I'm feeding her right now is pretty loaded with vitamins, due to the supplements I listed in my OP.

Is this normal after eggs? This is what I've been really wondering since none of our beardies have ever laid eggs before, so I don't know what is normal.

 

[xp29]

Thanks!
Yes, her pads are low.. that is what prompted me to post about this as I'm concerned.

She always seems to be dehydrated and I feed her water every day - she drinks a lot.

I have been giving her extra calcium like I said, though to the point where I'm worried I'm giving her too much.

I will also give her some critical care, though I think what I'm feeding her right now is pretty loaded with vitamins, due to the supplements I listed in my OP.

Is this normal after eggs? This is what I've been really wondering since none of our beardies have ever laid eggs before, so I don't know what is normal.

Both girls I had that laid also looked similar. It took a while to get them back to weight.
My girls appetites returned almost immediately though. If she still won't eat she may have more eggs to lay

 

[mactac]

Both girls I had that laid also looked similar. It took a while to get them back to weight.
My girls appetites returned almost immediately though. If she still won't eat she may have more eggs to lay

How long did it take for them to get their fat pads back?
Oh, and also how do you know if they have more eggs? Would it be normal to have a couple of weeks "pause" in laying?
Thanks again

 

[xp29]

How long did it take for them to get their fat pads back?
Oh, and also how do you know if they have more eggs? Would it be normal to have a couple of weeks "pause" in laying?
Thanks again

Sweet Pea took longer, she was always a good eater so I just fed her normal amounts with supplements until she was back to normal. 5 or 6 weeks or so. Ruby was always hit or miss on appetite. Sometimes it was a struggle to get her to eat for weeks at a time. So after eggs I would let her eat as much as she wanted while she would eat. She usually started looking normal at 3 or 4 weeks.

 

[mactac]

Sweet Pea took longer, she was always a good eater so I just fed her normal amounts with supplements until she was back to normal. 5 or 6 weeks or so. Ruby was always hit or miss on appetite. Sometimes it was a struggle to get her to eat for weeks at a time. So after eggs I would let her eat as much as she wanted while she would eat. She usually started looking normal at 3 or 4 weeks.

Thanks so much - you've been super helpful. Sounds like I just might need to be a little bit more patient, and maybe only start to worry if it goes on for a couple of months, and in the meantime critical care/supplements as you said.

 

[xp29]

Thanks so much - you've been super helpful. Sounds like I just might need to be a little bit more patient, and maybe only start to worry if it goes on for a couple of months, and in the meantime critical care/supplements as you said.

Your welcome.
@AHBD has decades of experience breeding beardies, she would be the person ask about egg laying duration

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, yeah your poor girl looks as you described , like she had a very rough time with ADV. Her body condition is just very thin and I've never had a girl with sunken fat pads no matter how many eggs they laid so it may just be the extra burden of her having ADV . Can you post a full body picture of her and do you know how much she weighs ? What insects do you feed her regularly ?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree, poor girl, she has definitely had a rough time of things.
Are her urates hard or soft right now? She may need some extra hydration if you can get more fluids into her somehow. Add a small amount of sea salt in the water to help with mineral & fluid retention.
Feed her healthy insects such as silkworms or hornworms because they are higher in water & have great protein as well.
Is she very active right now?

Tracie

 

[mactac]

OK, so thank you for all the help everyone. I have an update:

The very next day after I posted this, She laid 19 more eggs (!). I thought that because there had been almost 3 weeks since the first batch that she was done, so I was very surprised when all of a sudden we saw so many more. Since then, she has started eating much better. I wonder if she was egg bound all that time, possibly partially impacted from them or if the 30 or so eggs in total were absorbing so much nutrition or something?

@Drache613 You are very right - she has had an incredibly difficult time. She is 2 years old now, and started life very, very sick due to the ADV (likely from the breeder). She's gone through many periods of not eating and us having to syringe feed her for months at a time, lots of infections, lots of parasites, and early on we had one vet suggest to put her down 3 different times (!). She just needed a lot of attention and care - but she pulled through like a champ. I think the vet is probably so used to people not willing to put the effort in that they are just so used to telling people to put them down, I don't know... but it was extremely upsetting for my daughter to keep hearing that. Perhaps it's that they don't really know much about ADV - because they told us it was fatal and that there was nothing that could be done. I'm sure it has been extremely hard for her, but she is a bit of a miracle beardie.

If you want to see what she looked like back then, here is an image that I had posted when a lot of this was happening (warning - sick beardie picture):

https://www.beardeddragon.org/attachments/nari-old-jpg.77460/

In any case, I'm not sure if we are out of the water yet with respect to the fat pads - she is eating better, so it might resolve itself, but we will watch her carefully.

@Drache613 we have been giving her extra hydration (she drinks a lot of water every day) - I have electrolytes that I use for hiking, should I add some of those to her water? I also have some reptile soak electrolytes - maybe those would be better to add to her drinking water? Are they ok to consume?

She isn't very active, but that is not too out of the ordinary. Her activity has always been a bit strange - she is inactive for long periods, then once a month or so, she has a period where she gets fairly frantic - we will wet her out, and she'll go to the window for 30 second, turn around and go somewhere else, then go back to the window over and over. It's a bit troubling, and we always try to determine what it is she's looking for/wanting, but we've never been able to determine what the behavior is all about.

 

[AHBD]

Wow, big surprise for you ! She was not eggbound, laying more eggs 3 weeks apart is the norm,a healthy dragon will do so about 4-6x [ some even 7-8 ] a year. So that's good that she's eating now, feed her twice a day if she'll eat that much and lots of hydration. You can add a bit of electrolytes, yes.

 

[xp29]

Wow, big surprise for you ! She was not eggbound, laying more eggs 3 weeks apart is the norm,a healthy dragon will do so about 4-6x [ some even 7-8 ] a year. So that's good that she's eating now, feed her twice a day if she'll eat that much and lots of hydration. You can add a bit of electrolytes, yes.

Don't forget to load up on calcium as well, her stores will be depleted.
I'm glad she isceating again. She us for sure a little trooper

 

[mactac]

Wow, big surprise for you ! She was not eggbound, laying more eggs 3 weeks apart is the norm,a healthy dragon will do so about 4-6x [ some even 7-8 ] a year. So that's good that she's eating now, feed her twice a day if she'll eat that much and lots of hydration. You can add a bit of electrolytes, yes.

Ah, OK - I didn't realize that was normal - thank you for confirming. She is an extremely picky eater, and normally we use the "You can't eat your yummy stuff until you eat your veggies" method, even if it takes 4-5 days of no worms, but since she's been having a tough time lately and she hasn't been eating well, we've been giving her whatever she will actually eat (mostly superworms, unfortunately), but supplementing that with a syringe full of veggies and good protein, plus extra calcium, serrapeptase and milk thistle. Due to her ADV, we generally start giving her the supplements when she is experiencing high stress, assuming that she could use them. We also have a microscope and check for parasites ourselves about once a month - we've caught them a couple of times before we noticed any issues with her, which has probably saved her health, since parasites can be tough on an ADV positive beardie.

I've often wondered if there is anything we can do to help with epithelial cell damage from the ADV, but I've never been able to find anything useful. I wonder if it's mostly non-reversible similar to the liver damage from ADV.

 

[mactac]

Don't forget to load up on calcium as well, her stores will be depleted.
I'm glad she isceating again. She us for sure a little trooper

Thanks! We definitely give her a lot of calcium (I worry sometimes if it's too much even). I might get some liquid calcium, though it's tough to understand exactly how much is the correct dose sometimes with supplements.