strange thing happened after bath time

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i try and bath my beardy once a week.

i did it yesterday and he didn't seem to happy about being in there. for a few seconds he closed his eyes and drunk some of the water. After about a minute i took him out.
his eyes were still closed and it looked like he wasn't breathing. then he opened his mouth like he was stuggling for air.
i put him back in his cage - where he went white and his eyes were closed. it looked like he had died.
after about a minute or two he started breathing again and about 30 mins later his colour returned to normal.
he opened his eyes but looked tired.

today i went and fed him some worms he ate them and looked much better.

he hasn't been eating for the past few days. but as i said ate today.

he is 6 and i have been told that they live for an average of 7 years.

any ideas what happened yesterday?
 

gulfbrzdawn

BD.org Addict
Sorry to hear your beardie gave you quite the scare yesterday. I think he may have just taken in too much water and this is why he reacted the way he did. If you are bathing him only once a week, it may not be enough. This may be why he drank alot of water. Maybe you could up his baths to 2-3 times a week. When he is bathing, just keep an eye on him and make sure he does not take in so much water. He could actually drown from too much water at one time.
You can also put a little water on his veggies/greens for extra hydration.
Glad to hear he is looking and feeling better.
Let us know how he is doing.

Oh and Yes, beardies can live 7+ years. :D
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
thanks dawn - it was a worry.

i say he is mine - but he really is my brothers. I have been looking after him for 10 months while my brother works away.

his name is zolton. :D

so you think it was just a simple case of drinking too much water?

i am terrified to bath him ever again!
 

gulfbrzdawn

BD.org Addict
Yes, I am thinking he Zolton may have aspirated some water while in the bath. I have an older beardie that tends to drink too much in the bath too.
Don't be afraid to bathe him. Just make sure he does not drink alot of water. I don't know how much water you use to bathe, but try putting only enough water in the tub/container so that his vent(slit at base of tail) is covered with water. They absorb water through their vent, not their skin, so really as long as his vent is submerged he will still get water. Maybe less water will keep him from wanting to drink. Just an idea!
Keep an eye on him and let me know if you see any changes in the way he looks or behaves.
Hope this helps! :D
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
he has been okay all day.

then i just got him out and had him on my shoulder he was okay for a few minutes then he started opening his mouth and almost that he gasping for breath.
his eyes half closed. i put him back inside his cage and he seems a bit better now.

what is going on?

could that have been stress - would he have remembered yesterday and that would have stressed him out?
or is he not well?

(also what does aspirate mean in relation to bearded dragons - thanks)
 

gulfbrzdawn

BD.org Addict
When I said he may have aspirated, I meant he may have inhaled water into his lungs.
So he started gasping today? It could be possible that something else is going on with him.

If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions on his care and set up, we can try and rule some things out.

What brand and Type UVB are you using?
What watt and type basking bulb?
What are the temps in both the basking and coolside?
How are you measuring temps? Digital therm w/probe, stick on type, temp gun?
How close can he get to his uvb?
What are you feeding.. be specific? How often?
Do you give Calcium and Multivitamin supplements? How often?
What type substrate are you using?
How often does he poop?
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
gulfbrzdawn":oo0a68ws said:
When I said he may have aspirated, I meant he may have inhaled water into his lungs.
So he started gasping today? It could be possible that something else is going on with him.

If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions on his care and set up, we can try and rule some things out.

What brand and Type UVB are you using?
What watt and type basking bulb?
What are the temps in both the basking and coolside?
How are you measuring temps? Digital therm w/probe, stick on type, temp gun?
How close can he get to his uvb?
What are you feeding.. be specific? How often?
Do you give Calcium and Multivitamin supplements? How often?
What type substrate are you using?
How often does he poop?

i don't know about the temps - my brother takes care of all that.
i think the measuring temp is the stick on time inside the cage.
he has sand that we buy from the reptile shop.
he can't get close to his UV light.
he won't eat crickets only locusts except the past week he hasn't been wanting to eat.
i got those really small worms and fed them to him - he ate a few this morning.
he doesn't poop very often but he pooped last tuesday and then two days ago in the bath - that is often for him.
he gets fresh salad and fresh water daily.usually give him live food every other day.

if he got water in his lungs - does that mean that i should have never have bathed him in the first place?

worried myself by looking at beardy illnesses on the net - with the breathing could he have a respitory (sp) infection?
he hasn't got any mucus though.

*edit* he up and about this morning - the picture was taken at 9am so he might still be tired but his eyes don't look right to me. and he looks like he has lost some weight, notice the worms that i put in just before i took the picture - he didn't eat them:

zolton-1.jpg
 

gulfbrzdawn

BD.org Addict
Oh what a sweet looking beardie! He does look a little thin.
How much and how often does he eat?
The uvb is very important.. could you look at the bulb and tell me what type it is(fluorescent tube or mercury vapor bulb). Also measure thedistance from the uvb and the beardie.
How old is the UVB?
The temps are very important as well. Unfortunately, the stick on strip are not very accurate. You would be better off with a digital thermometer with a long wire and probe or an infrared temperature gun.
Does he have a basking bulb? How close can he get to that and what is the wattage?
If you are going to have sand in his enclosure, may I suggest you feed him out of a bowl instead of on the sand. He can pick up sand while eating and ingesting sand can cause a beardie to become impacted.
Do you give him any calcium or multivitamin supplements?
You mentioned respiratory infection. Is he making any sounds such as clicking or popping that you have noticed?
If his temps are too low, he could possibly get a RI.

Let's see if we can get his husbandry worked out. This will help with his overall health.
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
gulfbrzdawn":m06yvb09 said:
Oh what a sweet looking beardie! He does look a little thin.
How much and how often does he eat?
The uvb is very important.. could you look at the bulb and tell me what type it is(fluorescent tube or mercury vapor bulb). Also measure thedistance from the uvb and the beardie.
How old is the UVB?
The temps are very important as well. Unfortunately, the stick on strip are not very accurate. You would be better off with a digital thermometer with a long wire and probe or an infrared temperature gun.
Does he have a basking bulb? How close can he get to that and what is the wattage?
If you are going to have sand in his enclosure, may I suggest you feed him out of a bowl instead of on the sand. He can pick up sand while eating and ingesting sand can cause a beardie to become impacted.
Do you give him any calcium or multivitamin supplements?
You mentioned respiratory infection. Is he making any sounds such as clicking or popping that you have noticed?
If his temps are too low, he could possibly get a RI.

Let's see if we can get his husbandry worked out. This will help with his overall health.

i think that he has a flourescent blub.
i will have to see how old the bulb is.
yes is has a basking bulb - it is covered - in a square kind of like box - so he can't get to it.will have to check out the wattage.
he has 2 bowls changed everyday - for his veggie food and water.
yes calcium supplements in his veg.
i give him a few locusts/worms everyday. he doesn't like crickets.
we could only get large crickets last week - but he has pooped since eating them.

he only makes a clicking sound if i pick him up or bend down when he is on my shoulder - but he always has done that.

it was only yesterday when he made those three gasping noises while he was lying on top of me then he kind of like shut down.
this worried me.
his 'beard' seems a bit hard too - harder that normal - i realised this when i stroked him after the bath incident on sunday.

i phoned home and he is sitting on his log - so he seems to be doing 'okay'
i am scared to get him out now against he does that 'shutting down' again.

i have booked him to see a reptile vet on friday. i will see how he goes.

thanks Dawn x
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
Zolton this morning:

zoltontoday.jpg


he looks a bit better - his throat to the touch seems a bit hard.
maybe i am being paranoid i don't know.
i am scared to get him out incase he does a 'shut down' again.

Dawn my Mum told me his temp is almost 40oc.
 

gulfbrzdawn

BD.org Addict
Sorry I didn't get back to you. I am glad you are taking Zolton in to a vet tomorrow. He looks good in the pic, although his beard does look a little black. Does his beard look darker than normal to you? A blackbeard can sometimes mean they are in distress.
You mentioned his temps being 40 degrees celsius, which is good. How are you taking the temps? Are you using a digital therm with a probe, stick on type or temp gun? Is that the temp in his basking side?
Did you ever find out the brand of uvb you are using?
Have you looked in his mouth to see if there is any food stuck in his throat? Does he seem to be swallowing alot?
If you are hearing clicking sounds, it could possibly be a respiratory infection.
Please let me know what the vet says tomorrow.
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
just come from the vets.
it isn't good news.
it was a repile vet where i took him.
He done the gasping then the whole body shut down at the vets.
The vet said he hasn't got any lumps but it could be his heart or a tiny tumour. he doesn't know.
the back of his throat is inflamed.
he said that he hasn't seen this a dragon just shut down before.
he gave him a anti biotic and a cortoszone (sp) injection. he said it is a broad spectrum treatment and see if he perks up.
he said my brother has looked after him well for 6 years - he has never been ill before.
it wasn't the bath that has caused this - so i feel at least better knowing that.

but the vet doesn't think he will make it.
i told my brother - he took it hard.

i have to go back on tuesday - to be honest i don't want to make that decision - if it comes to it.
i would rather him go in his sleep.

thanks dawn for your kind advice xx
 

gulfbrzdawn

BD.org Addict
Oh no! I am so sorry to hear that Zolton is that sick. I'm glad you were able to get him into a reptile vet. Hopefully the meds will make him more comfortable.
I agree... if he must go, in his sleep would be best. Tell your brother I am very sorry. I hope that it gives him peace of mind to know that the vet said he had been taken really good care of him. Six years is a long time for a beardie.
Please keep me updated on Zolton and if there is anything I can do, just ask. You can always pm if you need to.
Again, I am sorry! I will keep Zolton in my prayers.
 

julieannboo

Member
Original Poster
thanks Dawn that is really kind of you.

he hasn't eaten or drunk since last saturday. so today - i just put water on my little finger and put it against zoltons' mouth and he started licking it - i was so pleased. so i kept doing that for a while. i tried some salad and he didn't want it so i went back to the water. he lapped it up.
i thought 'what have i got to lose?' - so i put him in a very shallow warm bath, just to try and get him hydrated. after about 30 seconds he had a poop.
i got him out kept him in a towel and laid him on me while i watched tv for a while.

i will try again tomorrow with giving him water off my finger.
 
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