Soaking help?
- Thread starter Bmac60
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I agree , oral hydration is super important. Bathing is fine if your dragon is drinking + enjoys the bath, otherwise they need oral hydration, especially if they're not eating because food also provides some hydration. Be patient with the water on the snout method, it can take a full minute before they realize it's a drink. So drip, stop, repeat until he is drinking.
UHG...Let me guess, this was an "Exotics" Vet?
Total myth, 100% false, please do not soak your Dragon. Not only do they not absorb ANY water or hydration through their vents or their skin, as the internet myths go, but all you are doing is totally and completely stressing your Dragon out, because him trying to climb out and escape is a huge indication that he hates the bath, and YOU'RE MAKING HIM WORSE!!!
Dragon's do not handle stress well at all, and it impacts their physical health a lot. The only time a Dragon needs a bath is when they get dirty or smell. That's it. Most Dragons hate baths and will not actively drink the bath water through their mouths, and in these cases, which sounds exactly like your Dragon, they should not get a bath more than once a week or when they are dirty. That's it, please stop trying to soak him, it's not hydrating him one bit and you're just making him worse and worse...
Bearded Dragons only absorb hydration the same way we do...THROUGH THEIR MOUTHS! They have the exact same GI Tract set-up and Renal System set-up that we do. The idea that they can absorb water through their vents or their skin (both are myths) and this actually gets hydration into their bloodstream is totally absurd and ridiculous based on their anatomy and physiology.
Let's explain this another way that should make complete sense to you: The only place on earth that Bearded Dragons come from naturally are the deserts of Australia, and only specific deserts in Australia...WHICH CONTAIN LITTLE TO NO STANDING WATER AT ALL!!! This is the reason that Dragons don't typically drink water out of a bath or a bowl, because they have absolutely no concept of standing water!!! They don't know enough to drink standing water through their mouths unless they are shown/trained to do so. WILD DRAGONS IN THE DESERT GET MOST ALL OF THEIR HYDRATION FROM THE LIVE INSECTS/ANIMALS AND FRESH VEGETATION THAT THEY EAT. PERIOD. THAT'S IT....So if they could actually absorb hydration through their vents or skin by simply soaking in standing water, don't ya think that they'd live naturally somewhere where there was standing water, or that they would seek out standing water to soak in? Yeah, think about that for a minute...
I'm sorry, but you need to find a new Reptile Vet, please do not go back to that one, they obviously have not a clue what they are talking about at all. And unfortunately this is the norm. Board-Certified Reptile Vets and Reptile Specialist Vets are very, very few and far between in the United States, and probably 90% of the vets that will treat reptiles are "Exotics" Vets...do you know what that means in the US? What an "Exotics" Vet means in the US? Nothing at all, that's what...
In the United States the term "Exotics" Vet is simply a label that VETS GIVE THEMSELVES AS SOON AS THEY GRADUATE FROM VETERINARY MEDICAL SCHOOL AND PASS THEIR STATE LICENSING EXAM. They are nothing more than a General Vet that "Is Willing To See" animals other than dogs and cats. That's all they are, that's all the label means. In-general most all of them have NO additional education, training, or experience in treating any pets other than dogs and cats, and what little they learn in Veterinary Medical School about the anatomy and physiology of reptiles, amphibians, birds, rodents, livestock, etc. That's how Vet School is set up in the US. They learn intricate details of diagnosing and treating dogs and cats (and some schools also have special emphasis tracks in livestock/farm medicine)...If a vet wants to actually specialize in one particular type of pet, they have to take it upon themselves to enroll in either a Fellowship or an Internship/Residency that allows them to study and train under a Board-Certified Avian Vet, Reptile Vet, etc. But an "Exotics" Vet or "Exotics" Animal Hospital is nothing more than a General Vet or a group of General Vets that want to treat as many animals as possible and make as much money as possible. The vet you saw probably saw a parrot right before he saw your Dragon, and after that he probably treated a Sugar Glider. And you really found a Vet who knows absolutely nothing at all about Dragons if he actually told you that they absorb hydration through their vents. That's really, really bad.
Did this vet ask you any questions at all about your husbandry and/or daily diet and supplementation schedule?
******First of all, if you ever think that your Dragon is dehydrated, which he definitely is if he has stopped eating his live insects and/or fresh greens/veggies, then you need to get water and/or unflavored Pedialyte into him THROUGH HIS MOUTH. You do this by using either an eyedropper or an Oral Syringe and dripping water on his snout, letting it roll down over his lips for him to lick off. Then drip again, lick, drip, lick, drip, etc. and give him as much water as he wants, until he stops licking it off or he moves away. And you should do this several times throughout the day, at least 3-4 times every day that he doesn't eat any live insects or fresh greens/veggies.
*******That being said, usually (9 times out of 10) when a Dragon loses his appetite and also becomes very lethargic, this is due to him getting inadequate UVB light, inadequate temperature zones, or both. This is why I asked you if this Vet asked you questions about your tank husbandry, his daily diet, or supplementation schedule, as I'm willing to bet that the cause of this is husbandry/diet related, and if you don't get it corrected it's only going to get worse and worse. If a Bearded Dragon doesn't get 13-14 hours under an adequate, strong UVB tube that is correctly mounted and at the correct distance from his Basking Spot/Platform (dependent upon exactly what UVB light you have), along with the same amount of time under a bright-white colored Basking Bulb, and within 3 correct temperature zones, specifically his Basking Spot Surface Temperature as measured with either a Temperature Gun or a Digital Probe Thermometer, they cannot absorb ANY of the Calcium they are ingesting in their food or in the Calcium and Multivitamin powders you give him, he'll just excrete all the Calcium (as well as other necessary nutrition) out with his bowel movements...
My suggestion is that you post some photos of your Dragon and of his entire tank/enclosure that also show how you have his lighting set up over the tank. Then you give us a run-down on EXACTLY what UVB light you have, what Basking Bulb you have, the substrate you have in his tank, what type of thermometer you use to measure his temperature zones, and what the temperatures of those zones are, along with what his regular, daily diet is, and how often you give him a Calcium supplement and a Multivitamin supplement....I can almost assure you that the reason he has lost his appetite and has become lethargic is located within your answers to these questions. Better you get it fixed now before MBD causes any permanent damage.
Total myth, 100% false, please do not soak your Dragon. Not only do they not absorb ANY water or hydration through their vents or their skin, as the internet myths go, but all you are doing is totally and completely stressing your Dragon out, because him trying to climb out and escape is a huge indication that he hates the bath, and YOU'RE MAKING HIM WORSE!!!
Dragon's do not handle stress well at all, and it impacts their physical health a lot. The only time a Dragon needs a bath is when they get dirty or smell. That's it. Most Dragons hate baths and will not actively drink the bath water through their mouths, and in these cases, which sounds exactly like your Dragon, they should not get a bath more than once a week or when they are dirty. That's it, please stop trying to soak him, it's not hydrating him one bit and you're just making him worse and worse...
Bearded Dragons only absorb hydration the same way we do...THROUGH THEIR MOUTHS! They have the exact same GI Tract set-up and Renal System set-up that we do. The idea that they can absorb water through their vents or their skin (both are myths) and this actually gets hydration into their bloodstream is totally absurd and ridiculous based on their anatomy and physiology.
Let's explain this another way that should make complete sense to you: The only place on earth that Bearded Dragons come from naturally are the deserts of Australia, and only specific deserts in Australia...WHICH CONTAIN LITTLE TO NO STANDING WATER AT ALL!!! This is the reason that Dragons don't typically drink water out of a bath or a bowl, because they have absolutely no concept of standing water!!! They don't know enough to drink standing water through their mouths unless they are shown/trained to do so. WILD DRAGONS IN THE DESERT GET MOST ALL OF THEIR HYDRATION FROM THE LIVE INSECTS/ANIMALS AND FRESH VEGETATION THAT THEY EAT. PERIOD. THAT'S IT....So if they could actually absorb hydration through their vents or skin by simply soaking in standing water, don't ya think that they'd live naturally somewhere where there was standing water, or that they would seek out standing water to soak in? Yeah, think about that for a minute...
I'm sorry, but you need to find a new Reptile Vet, please do not go back to that one, they obviously have not a clue what they are talking about at all. And unfortunately this is the norm. Board-Certified Reptile Vets and Reptile Specialist Vets are very, very few and far between in the United States, and probably 90% of the vets that will treat reptiles are "Exotics" Vets...do you know what that means in the US? What an "Exotics" Vet means in the US? Nothing at all, that's what...
In the United States the term "Exotics" Vet is simply a label that VETS GIVE THEMSELVES AS SOON AS THEY GRADUATE FROM VETERINARY MEDICAL SCHOOL AND PASS THEIR STATE LICENSING EXAM. They are nothing more than a General Vet that "Is Willing To See" animals other than dogs and cats. That's all they are, that's all the label means. In-general most all of them have NO additional education, training, or experience in treating any pets other than dogs and cats, and what little they learn in Veterinary Medical School about the anatomy and physiology of reptiles, amphibians, birds, rodents, livestock, etc. That's how Vet School is set up in the US. They learn intricate details of diagnosing and treating dogs and cats (and some schools also have special emphasis tracks in livestock/farm medicine)...If a vet wants to actually specialize in one particular type of pet, they have to take it upon themselves to enroll in either a Fellowship or an Internship/Residency that allows them to study and train under a Board-Certified Avian Vet, Reptile Vet, etc. But an "Exotics" Vet or "Exotics" Animal Hospital is nothing more than a General Vet or a group of General Vets that want to treat as many animals as possible and make as much money as possible. The vet you saw probably saw a parrot right before he saw your Dragon, and after that he probably treated a Sugar Glider. And you really found a Vet who knows absolutely nothing at all about Dragons if he actually told you that they absorb hydration through their vents. That's really, really bad.
Did this vet ask you any questions at all about your husbandry and/or daily diet and supplementation schedule?
******First of all, if you ever think that your Dragon is dehydrated, which he definitely is if he has stopped eating his live insects and/or fresh greens/veggies, then you need to get water and/or unflavored Pedialyte into him THROUGH HIS MOUTH. You do this by using either an eyedropper or an Oral Syringe and dripping water on his snout, letting it roll down over his lips for him to lick off. Then drip again, lick, drip, lick, drip, etc. and give him as much water as he wants, until he stops licking it off or he moves away. And you should do this several times throughout the day, at least 3-4 times every day that he doesn't eat any live insects or fresh greens/veggies.
*******That being said, usually (9 times out of 10) when a Dragon loses his appetite and also becomes very lethargic, this is due to him getting inadequate UVB light, inadequate temperature zones, or both. This is why I asked you if this Vet asked you questions about your tank husbandry, his daily diet, or supplementation schedule, as I'm willing to bet that the cause of this is husbandry/diet related, and if you don't get it corrected it's only going to get worse and worse. If a Bearded Dragon doesn't get 13-14 hours under an adequate, strong UVB tube that is correctly mounted and at the correct distance from his Basking Spot/Platform (dependent upon exactly what UVB light you have), along with the same amount of time under a bright-white colored Basking Bulb, and within 3 correct temperature zones, specifically his Basking Spot Surface Temperature as measured with either a Temperature Gun or a Digital Probe Thermometer, they cannot absorb ANY of the Calcium they are ingesting in their food or in the Calcium and Multivitamin powders you give him, he'll just excrete all the Calcium (as well as other necessary nutrition) out with his bowel movements...
My suggestion is that you post some photos of your Dragon and of his entire tank/enclosure that also show how you have his lighting set up over the tank. Then you give us a run-down on EXACTLY what UVB light you have, what Basking Bulb you have, the substrate you have in his tank, what type of thermometer you use to measure his temperature zones, and what the temperatures of those zones are, along with what his regular, daily diet is, and how often you give him a Calcium supplement and a Multivitamin supplement....I can almost assure you that the reason he has lost his appetite and has become lethargic is located within your answers to these questions. Better you get it fixed now before MBD causes any permanent damage.
Don't kill the messenger, any reptile vet that tells you to hydrate a Bearded Dragon by soaking them in water hasn't a clue what they're doing...
I'm only concerned for your Dragon, but if you don't want us to help you that's your choice. I hope your Dragon has started to eat normally and is no longer lethargic then...But there is absolutely no harm is telling us what UVB light you have, and how you have it mounted, as once again, you're allowing your Dragon's well-being to be in the hands of a vet that told you to hydrate him by soaking him instead of giving hydration by mouth...
If the lack of appetite and/or the lethargy continues, I highly suggest you tell us what UVB light you have and how you have it mounted, at the very least, because having them "test" your UVB light means absolutely nothing, when 95% of the UVB lights sold in the US are not at all adequate for a Bearded Dragon, and even the few that are adequate must be set-up in a very specific way, at a specific distance...
I'm only concerned for your Dragon, but if you don't want us to help you that's your choice. I hope your Dragon has started to eat normally and is no longer lethargic then...But there is absolutely no harm is telling us what UVB light you have, and how you have it mounted, as once again, you're allowing your Dragon's well-being to be in the hands of a vet that told you to hydrate him by soaking him instead of giving hydration by mouth...
If the lack of appetite and/or the lethargy continues, I highly suggest you tell us what UVB light you have and how you have it mounted, at the very least, because having them "test" your UVB light means absolutely nothing, when 95% of the UVB lights sold in the US are not at all adequate for a Bearded Dragon, and even the few that are adequate must be set-up in a very specific way, at a specific distance...
Taterbug
BD.org Addict
Unfortunately I think your vet has some outdated information. This doesn’t mean they are incompetent but does mean you need be a bit careful of some advice. Soaking reptiles often inspires them to drink, which I think is where this must’ve gotten started. A positive response to a bath can be from the warmth of it, or the novelty of it among other things.
If he doesn’t like soaking it might be hard to change his mind. I use a spray bottle and squeeze it gently so it’s sort of a trickle, and that works best for me. I’ve had luck using fruit or honey to slightly flavor the water to get my guy more interested in it, and then not needing it once he learned to recognize the sprayer.
@EllenD
If he doesn’t like soaking it might be hard to change his mind. I use a spray bottle and squeeze it gently so it’s sort of a trickle, and that works best for me. I’ve had luck using fruit or honey to slightly flavor the water to get my guy more interested in it, and then not needing it once he learned to recognize the sprayer.
@EllenD
this is absolutely not true. I’m sure this is part of some more general claim about the topic at hand, but if you are going to make an argument based on physiology it behooves you to be more accurate.
Taterbug":2n5yxior said:
With all due respect Taterbug, you know exactly what I meant by this statement, yes it was a general statement because most people don't have a background in physiology...I mean really, do you want me to type out how their entire Renal System works in relation to absorbing oral hydration from their GI Tracts, and to explain in detail why water that enters their vents can not make it to their bloodstreams in large enough quantities to hydrate them, just like water that reaches our rectums can't either? I mean really...I did that once already, explained the entire thing in complete and total detail, step by step by step about a year ago in a post...AND I GOT A "WARNING" FOR BEING "TOO SCIENTIFIC AND DETAILED FOR THE AVERAGE MEMBER"...NO JOKE, i STILL HAVE THE PM FROM THE MODERATOR. So forgive me if I didn't go down that road again, but if you insist that I do then I will, just let me know and I'll start typing it out...
***Seriously, the only thing that matters here is helping the OP's Dragon, especially since the Vet that they took their Dragon to gave them horrible information and treatment instructions, which you know to be true and agree with...You know your stuff, you know what may or may not be the problem here, and you knew exactly what I meant, in-general, with that statement, which is actually very, very true in the general bottom-line. So let's try to not bicker between us, we both have education and experience and can help the OP or any OP that comes onto this forum with a sick Dragon. Doing this kind of thing does no good for anyone involved, including you and I.
Ha Ha, i just read your comment again, "It behooves you to be more accurate" since I'm making a claim based on physiology...Yeah, you're 100% correct, you'd certainly think so, wouldn't you? Not my experience at all...It's ironic, isn't it? I did exactly what you scolded me for about a year ago with the same topic and I got a warming for being "Too detailed and Scientific for the average members of this forum", and due to this I now make a generalized statement because I didn't want to be "Too detailed or Scientific" by giving the same detailed, physiological explanation, and I get called-out for not doing so...Can't win..
I totally apologize if that's the way my writing came off, it's not at all meant to be "aggressive", but rather very direct and to the point. I asked direct questions about your husbandry and gave you explanations as to why if these things were not correct they could cause the symptoms/signs that your Dragon is having...What TaterBug was referring to was the general statement I made, which was very general, he was actually pointing out that I was't detailed and/or scientific enough, that I should have written out exactly why the physiology of Dragon does not allow them to absorb water, at least not enough water to actually hydrate them, through their vents, because I based it on their physiology in the first place. I didn't find it necessary to get that detailed/scientific at all. Had I done that then I'd be getting responses like "Geez, you don't have to be so scientific, what are you, trying to show off your knowledge?" and things like that, plus the end result is the same, or the answer is the same, Dragons do not absorb enough water through their vents (and none through their skin at all, another myth) to hydrate them. That we both agree on.
Look, I didn't mean any harm towards you, I don't know you, I only care about your Dragon's welfare, I'm passionate about them as are most other members of this forum. I get right to the point and ask the questions that give the answers that can help your Dragon, and I do try to give explanations as to why these things cause the issues they do. That being said, i never said a word about you or it being your fault, in fact it's usually just the opposite, it's typically bad advice from pet shop employees and Vets that don't know what they're talking about...It's extremely common, every day on this forum...And I do have to calm the hell down and I do apologize, but recently it seems like every single post involves bad advice, bad treatment, no treatment, etc. from these Vets that know nothing about what they are talking about...This has recently included several Dragons being literally killed by Vets, no exaggeration at all. So yes, i'm getting worked up about it lately, as are other regular posters, it's out of hand and driving us crazy. Simple things are being turned into a Dragon being killed for no reason. It's very frustrating. But I am very, very sorry if I offended you. This has nothing to do with you at all, or anything that you did, nor did I say that.
I don't know if this will make sense to you, but I'd much rather ask direct questions and be very forward with them and help your Dragon not...If you were to tell me that you've got a Compact/Coil UVB bulb or a T8 strength UVB tube sitting on top of a mesh lid, or an Exo Terra SolarGlow MVB Light, or you're taking your temps with a stick-on thermometer and don't have a way to measure his Basking Spot Surface Temp, or tell me any other number of red-flags that jump out, then we can fix the problem. That's where I'm coming from, but I totally understand what you're saying, and I apologize...As far as TaterBug's comment to me, that's an entirely different thing that has nothing to do with you or your Dragon at all, and 2 regular members bickering back and forth with each other and pointing out little things like that is totally counterproductive to helping the OP's Dragon. We both know that the advice you were given by your Vet was incorrect, and he knew exactly what I meant by my statement, he admitted as much, but we just gotta pick back and forth. I don't want to do that, it does no good, and I call a truce as far as that goes, does no good and serves no purpose at all. We're both better than that.
Look, I didn't mean any harm towards you, I don't know you, I only care about your Dragon's welfare, I'm passionate about them as are most other members of this forum. I get right to the point and ask the questions that give the answers that can help your Dragon, and I do try to give explanations as to why these things cause the issues they do. That being said, i never said a word about you or it being your fault, in fact it's usually just the opposite, it's typically bad advice from pet shop employees and Vets that don't know what they're talking about...It's extremely common, every day on this forum...And I do have to calm the hell down and I do apologize, but recently it seems like every single post involves bad advice, bad treatment, no treatment, etc. from these Vets that know nothing about what they are talking about...This has recently included several Dragons being literally killed by Vets, no exaggeration at all. So yes, i'm getting worked up about it lately, as are other regular posters, it's out of hand and driving us crazy. Simple things are being turned into a Dragon being killed for no reason. It's very frustrating. But I am very, very sorry if I offended you. This has nothing to do with you at all, or anything that you did, nor did I say that.
I don't know if this will make sense to you, but I'd much rather ask direct questions and be very forward with them and help your Dragon not...If you were to tell me that you've got a Compact/Coil UVB bulb or a T8 strength UVB tube sitting on top of a mesh lid, or an Exo Terra SolarGlow MVB Light, or you're taking your temps with a stick-on thermometer and don't have a way to measure his Basking Spot Surface Temp, or tell me any other number of red-flags that jump out, then we can fix the problem. That's where I'm coming from, but I totally understand what you're saying, and I apologize...As far as TaterBug's comment to me, that's an entirely different thing that has nothing to do with you or your Dragon at all, and 2 regular members bickering back and forth with each other and pointing out little things like that is totally counterproductive to helping the OP's Dragon. We both know that the advice you were given by your Vet was incorrect, and he knew exactly what I meant by my statement, he admitted as much, but we just gotta pick back and forth. I don't want to do that, it does no good, and I call a truce as far as that goes, does no good and serves no purpose at all. We're both better than that.
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